Humping hurts!

Parodius

Parodius

Help! I’m at a bit of a loss and was wondering if anyone had any words of wisdom.

Neo’s hormones have been raging over the last few weeks and among other things, he has started trying to hump L every evening which is not ideal for obvious reasons but he also nips the back of your arm when he’s doing it and it really hurts as he’s done it to me too. It seems to have become part of his ‘routine’ and I’m unsure of the best way to break the habit and to actually deal with it ‘in the moment’.

We used to have quite a relaxed evening routine, after we have dinner he would have a frozen licky mat, a few calm training games of touch, leave the treat etc then he would have a chew on his nylabone or split antler before settling on the sofa for a couple of hours kip before a bedtime wee walk. Now as soon as I have finished the training games he just stares intently at L before making his move and as there is sometimes nipping involved it is often difficult to deal with calmly.

We have tried having L in a separate room when it is likely to happen but he just pines and won’t settle, then when she does return he’s straight back in the ‘humping zone’. Tonight I tried having him on a house line to redirect if he started but that just made things worse as he was barking and lunging to get to L. Anyone got any other ideas to prevent this?
I don’t want to overdo it and I try and keep everything as calm as possible as I think it’s happening because he’s overtired.

Also, any tips for the best way to deal with it when it’s happening? At the moment if asking for an alternative behaviour doesn’t work (which it mainly doesn’t) either L will go the other side of a baby gate or Neo does, whichever works. Either way Neo gets quite distressed and barks and whines. Once he appears calmer the gate is opened back up, it’s currently 50/50 wether he will try again or go and curl up on the sofa. Is there a better way we could manage this?

Any ideas or suggestions would be great as it’s quite literally every night now and upsetting all round. Thanks.
 
Boogie

Boogie

Moderator
Location
Manchester UK
Jelinga said:
I am sorry you are having this problem and if distraction doesn't work then castration! People will jump down my throat saying that, but if a dog has such raging hormones, it must be very frustrating for him. You could try chemical castration to see if he grows out of it.
Click to expand...
I agree.

Echo had a phase where he was unmanageable due to raging hormones. Castration took a weight off his mind.
 
HAH

HAH

Moderator
Location
Devon, UK
Hi @Parodius - entirely sympathize with these challenges. We had similar with Kipper’s energy in his teenage phase, and my mum has the mouthing/nipping with her teenage lab at the moment.
One thing I’d say right out is that in my view castration is not a panacea for these behaviors, and needs to be a separate consideration entirely. If this is a plan, I’d definitely find a specialist +ve canine behaviorist to discuss issues with before making that decision.
It sounds like a lot of these things are related to hyper-arousal, and post-walks and post-training are really common times to see this sort of thing - particularly in younger dogs who are still learning to self-regulate. With the mouthing, could you do something as simple as having a toy to hand for Neo to hold? We’ve done this with my mum’s teenager and he’s quickly learned that it helps him - he’ll now go and find a toy 9 times out of 10 before it gets to mouthing/nipping.
Also could a short game of tug, or ping pong recall or similar after you finish a walk/training help in establishing a ‘wind down’ routine?
I’m sure there’ll be more ideas along soon, but don’t despair! There will be ways through this phase.
 
kateincornwall

kateincornwall

Location
Cornwall , UK
How is Neo with other dogs ? Does he show signs of wanting to hump them ? I ask because if he doesnt show signs with other dogs , then it could simply be over excitement . I appreciate that castration , either chemical or surgical is a contentious subject and also a very personal choice to make following advice from your Vet . Reuben showed no interest in humping anything or any other dogs until he hit 2 and a half years of age when he simply became a sex pest , his frustrations were awful to witness . We decided upon surgical castration which I have never regretted for one moment , but as said before , make sure its an informed decision after seeking the right advice . Even more now for us with our boy having had three grade 2 mast cell tumours removed , and there being a possible genetic cause , I am so relieved that we dont have the risk of an accidental mating .
 
Parodius

Parodius

Thanks all, it’s definitely one of his harder phases to manage. The mouthing/nipping has pretty much been eliminated at most other times, like your mum’s pup @HAH , we give Neo a toy to hold when he’s likely to get overexcited like when visitors arrive etc and this works really well in the main part. Unfortunately this doesn’t really work when he’s in hump mode.

I think you’re right @kateincornwall I’m pretty sure it is over excitement/over tiredness that’s causing it. He hasn’t shown any interest in humping other dogs at all (yet), although I’ve been wondering if there is a female dog in heat in the area as recently he’s been quite frantic with his sniffing on his toilet break walks around the neighbourhood and sometimes a bit whiney afterwards, but when we drive him somewhere else he‘s fine.

Castration is something we’ve discussed previously with the vet and behaviourist and the general consensus at the time was either not to or if it became necessary for some reason, to wait as long as possible due to his general anxiety - although he wasn’t displaying this behaviour when we talked about it. His confidence has definitely improved a lot, more so away from the house. I guess the concern with castration is this could have a negative effect on that.
 
Beanwood

Beanwood

Administrator
Humping is an interesting behaviour, not for clients though!

Rarely is this sexually driven, although for sure if there is a bitch in season it may have provoked this behaviour in the first place.

The timing might be a bit of a clue in Neo's case. And you are probably on the right track with the tiredness.

Adolescence for anxious dogs is tough, they have so much to try and sort through, let alone considering the neuro changes that interfere with his ability to make good choices. You may need to review your routine.

What can happen is humping becomes a sort of "coping" mechanism. The more they do it the more reinforcing it becomes. They start to anticipate the humping, this is where a good routine can backfire!

To help Neo feel less inclined to hump will need a multi-faceted approach. Firstly, think about what happened before the behaviour, and think about could you do something less demanding ( from his perspective??) Gentle training games are fun for our dogs, but maybe in Neo's case they may need to be reserved for a different time of the day. Consider also, what sort of training are you doing, if anything? Would just a relaxing massage or ACE work ( where Neo leads the activity at his own pace..) be better?

What else can you do? Something really good to chew, and that will last a while might help, as Neo doesn't have to think to chew, and chewing will help him feel better. Milles Wolfheart have an excellent range of long lasting chews.

Diet consider changing when Neo gets fed and how much, sometimes food can also act as a trigger for arousal.

When did the humping start? Is he restless, as in discomfort do you think?

If I remember Neo is on anxiolytic meds. Your vet might consider adding in something which will work synergistically with his current therapy, but help calm the arousal ( not sedate but something like Gabapentin for example : CAVEAT I am not vet :) )

Your routine can also trigger the need to hump ( going back to what "happens" before the humping starts..)

Do you have a journal for Neo? That might help understand where the behaviour is coming from. Recording rest and activity, plus bursts of over-aroused behaviour will help. Is is sleeping through the night?

Finally, adolescent is a phase, and like most things it too will pass.
 
Beanwood

Beanwood

Administrator
@Parodius sorry I didn't expand on what ACE actually is!

ACE which stands for Animal Centred Education, or "freework", is a completely self-directed activity for dogs. Our role in freework is simply is simply to observe and maybe offer just a little bit of encouragement at the beginning to get them started. As observers letting our dogs have space, there is a lot we can pick up on wrt to emotional state, body language, and if there is something not quite right with how our dogs moves.

Freework is also a great enrichment activity, especially if you want to keep things a bit low key. We shouldn't be thinking of freework as some sort of complex obstacle course where we need to cheer our dogs on! :rofl: :tail:

This is Casper, be warned it is a bit long at 7 mins, but you get the idea! :inlove:

 
Parodius

Parodius

Thanks for this @Beanwood , a lot of thinking points for us to look at. The humping started becoming a much more regular occurrence about 3 weeks ago following his camping weekend. Before that it would only happen maybe once a week or so. I imagine it was brought on as although I believe he enjoyed himself in the main part, it was quite a lot of new things for him to process and he was probably a bit overwhelmed. I don't think he is in discomfort but I think he is probably due a visit to the vet to discuss his anxiety meds anyway so will get him checked over then. I'm not sure that his current medication is really benefitting him that much, whilst he has improved a lot with his confidence away from the house he is still often on high alert for noises in the house and garden.

Neo is quite 'routine driven' in general, we found it was quite good to have a pretty solid routine for him when he was younger as it seemed to calm him down if he knew what was coming next, however now he is older I have noticed he shows signs of frustration at times when he is keen to move onto the 'next thing', often if the next thing is food related.

I will try cutting out the training games in the evening and maybe replace them with a chew. I will take a look at the chews on Millie's website, we moved him on to their kibble about a month ago and he seems to enjoy it. He's a bit of a gobbler when it comes to chews though so I have to be careful what he has as he has been known to swallow things whole! Thankfully he does sleep well at night now, we set up a pen in our room and he is a lot more settled and normally gets a good 8hrs. During the day he does get some good naps in, as long as I remain in the room and pretty static, otherwise his FOMO often gets the better of him. This has improved with his separation training but is still definitely a work in progress!

I have actually come across ACE and done some freework with him in the past, we are only a few miles from their training centre. Unfortunately the nearest ACE accredited trainers to us are ones we went to for his puppy and adolescent classes and whilst they seemed very good as trainers, Neo didn't really get on well with the set up they had there and spent most of his time getting frustrated. Plus I embarrassed myself by becoming a weeping mess on a couple of occasions so I'm a bit reluctant to go back! I did some sessions with him at home during the heatwave when we couldn't go out during the day, maybe I should look to do it more regularly with him. Thanks again for your suggestions and observations, much appreciated.
 
M

M.F.

This has been an interesting read. Snowie does something similar, except not humping, but rather digging. He is very routine-bound (although has no issues breaking the routine if we’re out and about) and the last thing he does before settling for the night is to dig in his bed (too many ripped beds!). I think I’ll need to take on some of the advice given here because I do think he’s digging as a way of self pacifying.

Snowie is intact. He’s 10.5 years old. I was interested to read here about mounting when tired. He does this almost every very long walk (once a week on a Sunday). Happy to meet dogs throughout the walk. But on the home stretch he always mounts a dog!

If we do encounter a bitch in heat, or just a sniff of a bitch in heat, then he’ll be triggered and want to mount almost every dog we meet. Fortunately we don’t encounter in heat bitches that often.
 
Parodius

Parodius

I wonder when Neo will start showing an interest in the lady dogs? He hasn’t yet but I have a feeling it won’t be long!

I took him to the vets for a checkup, once he was reasonably still for long enough (with the aid of peanut butter!) he passed the physical so good to know it’s hopefully not any discomfort that is bothering him. We discussed his anxiety meds, the vet talked about changing him over to fluoxetine but he wants to try slightly increasing his current clomicalm first alongside a natural calming remedy so will see how that goes. He doesn’t think castration should be a consideration at the moment.

We’ve changed his routine around a bit the last couple of days. After our dinner we go back to the kitchen where he has his licky mat and then everything is very calm and boring for a while as he often settles better in the kitchen. Whilst dull for all involved, this seems to be helping as although he has had a couple of humping attempts there isn’t the same intensity he has been showing and we’ve been able to interrupt him asking for an alternative behaviour instead. Once he’s calm and relaxed in the kitchen we can go back to the lounge and he will curl up on the sofa for a kip. It’s early days but changing locations and cutting out any training games seems to be helping so hopefully we can break the habit 🤞 Thanks all for your comments and ideas.
 
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