Stopping reaction to snarling dogs

[Atemas]

So we have our own new fence along the back of our garden (I’ve posted about this on other threads - it’s been a nightmare and right now we are feeling extremely bruised at the way our neighbour at the back has treated us. I am totally disgusted with her. Won’t go into it all but it’s been horrible).

Now her two dogs are continuing to snarl/growl/fling themselves at our new fence when I go in the garden with Red for her to toilet. This year, Red has reacted badly to them and flung herself barking at the old fence. Her hackles go up and she can’t toilet in peace.

We are retraining Red to not react (she had got quite good last year before the awful gaps appeared in the old fence). The aim is to stop the reaction and this is what we are doing. We go out only twice a day - very early morning and just before tea at 5 o’clock (rest of the time she toilets on walks). I get a special treat out the pot and show her before I open the door. I tell her ‘no barking’ holding the treat for her to see. We go out and I say ‘go wee’. She knows I’ve got the treat and wants to stick by me but she’s also trained to ‘go wee’ on cue. We then start to go in, me saying ‘good girl that’s no barking, you’re a good girl’ still letting her see I’ve got the treat. Once inside, she’s given it and fussed.

So far it’s working but I know they’ll be there behind the fence and she’ll react. She won’t get the treat. We’re hoping she’s get the message - don’t react and you’ll be rewarded.

Does this seem harsh? We have to break the cycle. I just want my garden back and to be able to spend time out there with my dog but we need to have our dog not reacting and hopefully they will stop. I’m already fed up of them flinging themselves at our new fence.

I know the coming colder weather will help to break the cycle as no one will be out so much but we now know her dogs are often out in her garden all day and all night.

 

[kateincornwall]

This must be a total nightmare for you Alison , I really am sorry and think you are doing the very best you can in these awful circumstances . I feel very sorry for Red that she has been put in this situation and none of it of her doing xx

 

[Atemas]

I feel very sorry for Red that she has been put in this situation and none of it of her doing xx

Thank you for your kind words. Yes that’s the worst thing - I get very upset for her as she doesn’t deserve it. When Sky was alive, she was never bothered about the dogs and their antics (she was never interested in other dogs) - she’d just totally ignore them so I guess we were pretty lucky and we’d be in the garden as much as we liked. Unfortunately, they do affect Red

 

[Ashley]

This sounds awful for you guys and it would be a rare dog who wouldn't react in some way (refusing to go out, barking back etc.). Is there any way to tell if they are outside before you let Red out? One thing I would consider is going out with her on a leash to keep her from being too close to the fence and focusing on you.

 

[Joy]

This must be really annoying for you. I'd like to suggest a different approach. Red's barking isn't really a choice she's making, it's an instinctive emotional response, so I would suggest using treats in a different way. Rather than rewarding good behaviour, use them to change her associations. So go in the garden with Red on a lead with a pot of treats when the other dogs are out there (but preferably not when she needs to toilet as that need is an added stressor). As soon as Red becomes aware of the other dogs start feeding her treats, even if she barks, as you are trying to build a new link in her mind, that neighbour dogs barking = treats. If Red is too aroused to take the treats then try being further from the fence, even just in your open doorway. Keep each session really short, perhaps a minute at first. If you go in the garden and the other dogs aren't there then don't use the treats.

We've been using this approach with Molly and our neighbour's new dog. We are lucky because our very nice neighbours asked us to set up training times deliberately and they follow the same protocol with their dog. Molly and dog-next-door are never going to be best buddies but they are learning to tolerate each other.

I think this approach (essentially LAT) can work even without co-operation from your neighbour.

This is one example of engage/disengage:

 

[Lisa]

That is really frustrating. We had the same problem with previous neighbours dogs, who would go absolutely bonkers when they saw Simba out in the yard. Thankfully he is very chill and for the most part ignored them, but by the end of the two years or so that they were there I noticed that he had started rushing the fence at them at time or two. But then thankfully they moved!
That video was really good, great tips there. I always remember the best tip I got from “the other place”: teaching your dog what NOT to do is really difficult. Figure out what you want them to DO in that situation and teach that instead. The video captured that nicely I think.

 

[Atemas]

Red's barking isn't really a choice she's making, it's an instinctive emotional response, so I would suggest using treats in a different way. Rather than rewarding good behaviour, use them to change her associations. So go in the garden with Red on a lead with a pot of treats when the other dogs are out

Thank you @Joy. I posted because although we had a plan, I didn’t feel totally ok about it. As you say it’s an instinctive emotional response and it happens in a split second, then we have to deal with the fall-out - Red flying at the fence barking in response to them.

with Red on a lead

going out with her on a leash

Yes I was reluctant to put her on lead as it seems so unfair she can’t be in her own garden free……but I accept it’s what we have to do to set her up for success. Fortunately she has a lot of freedom on her walks so really it’s just my mindset that has to change.

teaching your dog what NOT to do is really difficult. Figure out what you want them to DO in that situation and teach that instead. The video captured that nicely I think.

Yes as we have absolutely zilch cooperation from the neighbour at the back, this is ‘our problem’ to manage and try to sort.

 

[Loraseal]

I am so sorry @Atemas as it is literary happening on your own doorstep.
Good advice from @Joy.
Red's reaction is quite normal and her barking is her way of communicating that she does not like what they are doing.
Frustrating and upsetting as your garden should be your sanctuary.
I am trying the engage/disengage with Hunter and his nemesis. Work in progress
My aim is to give Hunter a positive emotion when we come across him.

Red is a clever girl who will catch on quick....even though she is not the one who has caused the problem X

 

[Jelinga]

It is a shame she is such an unpleasant neighbour as you could have walked the dogs together and so the became friends.

I have the same problem with the dog next door, unfortunately we didn't have the opportunity for the dogs to be friends and so we got this fence barking and hating. I put a new fence up, but still the "I HATE YOU" barking took place and now it was both of them. I have a good neighbour, so if the dogs bark at the fence we stop them, I just call Rourke to come in and it is getting better, not really a problem now.

 

[Atemas]

I am so sorry @Atemas as it is literary happening on your own doorstep.
Good advice from @Joy.
Red's reaction is quite normal and her barking is her way of communicating that she does not like what they are doing.
Frustrating and upsetting as your garden should be your sanctuary.
I am trying the engage/disengage with Hunter and his nemesis. Work in progress
My aim is to give Hunter a positive emotion when we come across him.

Red is a clever girl who will catch on quick....even though she is not the one who has caused the problem X

Thank you so much @Loraseal for this understanding and empathetic post. I appreciate it so much. We are going to follow @Joy ‘s approach. You are right our garden should feel our sanctuary but just now it just doesn’t feel it - at the moment I am even nervous about even stepping out there. I hope your work in progress with Hunter is successful.

It is a shame she is such an unpleasant neighbour as you could have walked the dogs together and so the became friends.

Sadly she doesn’t even walk her dogs. I have never ever seen her walking them. They are let loose to run over an area of green grass nearby sometimes. I can’t imagine anyone becoming friends with this person. She has caused much upset locally. I’d feel much happier if we were able to work together on the fence barking but it’s never going to happen

 

[Shaz82]

What a shame your neighbours are so horrible, I do feel for Red not being at peace in her own garden. I hope you can put Joy's approach into practice and solve the problem x

 

[SwampDonkey]

Sadly we had to wait until our problem dog died before our dogs could get some peace in the garden. Hopefully what Joys suggested will help. We like you had to put in a big strong fence and hoped for the best. Our neighbours are much nicer than yours though and understood the need to keep the dogs apart. This was after the dog warden had visited and explained what would happen if their dog continued to to attack my dogs and threaten me. I'm just sorry you are having to put up with this it's hard and I know at some points I had to stop using one area of my garden just to avoid the dog.hope you can find away to get Red some peace

 

[Candy]

I'm so sorry that this is happening to you and poor Red, it's most unfair. I would like to agree with what Joy has said though. When I take GGJ up to the Moor our most direct route there and back is past a stable yard that has two Jack Russells who run along by the fence barking madly at every dog that passes. Joy used to bark back and lunge so to prevent this I started treat streaming as soon as they started barking. Now she eagerly anticipates this part of the walk and is quite disappointed if the dogs aren't there. I have also found that if by chance I have run out of treats and the dogs are there she now shows no inclination to bark or lunge, just a touch of indignation at the lack of treats! I hope you can resolve the problem.

 

[Atemas]

Thank you everybody for your posts - I really do appreciate them. We have started the plan. Will keep you posted

 

[Candy]

Good luck with the plan, if GGJ and I can do it then you and Red most definitely can! Although I have to admit ours wasn't exactly a plan, more a sort of coping strategy that just happened to work!

 

[Cath]

Good luck Alison

 

[Granca]

Good luck with the plan.

 

[Selina27]

@Atemas Alison best of luck with your plan.

It's a distressing situation that's for sure, to have your garden sanctuary imposed upon in this way, and I really hope you can bring about a resolution.

I have had a similar situation to @Candy on one of our walks in that there is a collie who barks and fence runs alongside the footpath. Cassie began to react and I did LAT/ treat streaming to pass the garden. It worked very well, I haven't had to do it for ages now. Cassie trots on by with her head held high and rather disdainfully as if the other dog is not there now!!

Rather different I know as for Red there is her own boundary in contention, but no doubt you'll get there.

 

[Atemas]

The weather was beautiful today. I realised this afternoon the snarling dogs weren’t there. She’s having a new kitchen so I think she goes somewhere else for a few hours. We made the most of it and sat outside. Red was very chilled - lying on her bed and wandering quietly about the garden. I confess to not doing much training these last few days - I am still so sad and angry those 2 dogs are behaving the way they do and the whole fence scenario that I have to psych myself up to go out there with Red. Anyway today we enjoyed our garden and are planning new planting

 

[Granca]

I am still so sad and angry those 2 dogs are behaving the way they do and the whole fence scenario that I have to psych myself up to go out there with Red.

That’s such a shame. Your garden looks lovely, Alison.

We had a tricky next door neighbour who made it very difficult to manage the tall (12-15ft) hedge between our gardens. It was important to stop it growing any taller, as it was thinning out at the base because it was putting all its energy into growing tall. Unfortunately she wouldn’t admit this, even though she said she was a gardener. As their garden was about four feet higher than ours that meant we could see into their garden through the thinning lower part of the hedge. The husband kept a low profile, but every time I tried to cut the hedge at all his wife stopped me, saying she wanted her privacy! Having agreed to letting us have the hedge cut professionally, she then swore at the men who were trying to cut it. Every time I went into our garden or out through the front door I felt as if I was being watched and expected her to pounce!

Fortunately they moved away. The lovely neighbour who bought the house is a very keen gardener and uses the same person as I do to cut the hedges every year. Over the years the hedge has thickened again and is an excellent screen and still very high. It makes such a difference to have good neighbours.