Beanwood
Administrator
Thought I would write a log detailing my personal experience with Suprelorin and Benson.
Benson had a week and a half ago. We were wanting to surgically castrate, however, due to work/holiday commitments we couldn't. We now feel that Benson at 19 months old is now sexually mature, so after lengthy discussions with our vet, we opted for Suprelorin. The main advantage over surgical castration is that it is reversible.
Suprelorin is an implant, (GnRH-agonist deslorelin). which works by initially stimulating testosterone causing a flood through the system in the first few weeks followed by production of testosterone being switched off. Sperm should be sterile after 6 weeks. Changes in behaviour, if notably affected by testosterone, are observed around this time.
There are two doses available 4.7mg and 9,4mg. 4.7mg is the most commonly used and is effective for around 6 months. 9.4mg is for a longer period 12months or more.
A good reference here: http://www.ema.europa.eu/docs/en_GB..._the_public/veterinary/000109/WC500068830.pdf
NOAH : http://www.noahcompendium.co.uk/Virbac_Limited/Suprelorin_4_7_mg_implant_for_dogs/-48970.html
I haven't found much information regarding what the initial surge looks like, and sifting through the internet can be a minefield! It is certainly worth being aware of, although I appreciate each dog is different.
What we have seen so far: ( 13 days post implant)
1. Increased sniffing
2. Increased excitement - whining in anticipation of a walk.
3. Increased distraction to the point of impossible to train in areas where other dogs have been.
4. Increased marking (growling after marking)
The above are the reasons why we are considering castration anyway, they have just become intensified, and causing Benson some frustration. Luckily we are able to walk in our own fields where no other dogs have been, and then we have a completely different dog, relaxed and very focused. There are lots of distractions and scents...fox, deer and rabbit but no dog scent
I am wondering if the consequence of castrating some dogs during adolescence or before has more of an impact on behaviour than we realise, combined with inadequate training = badly behaved dog? We know there is a natural surge of testosterone during this period. Another thought is the castration itself, is this process managed as well as it could be in general? I have spoken to a behaviourist at length about this, how is the anaesthetic administered/can the owner be with the dog during the recovery period? Are they brought around too quickly? Just musings on my part, but I do hear a lot that the first significant signs of nervousness experienced by a dog were actually at the vets.
Benson has had some heart-stopping moments due to the fact he is entire..I wouldn't wish those on anyone. We haven't though experienced aggression from any dog towards him though,(castrated or not) and nor any aggression from Benson, he will grumble if another even attempts to mount him, and always the other dog backs off without a second warning, then play resumes
*Note: post-implant,( entire) we noted aggression towards Benson from castrated dogs. These were dogs previously where Benson had not experienced a problem
We want the best for Benson, so the log is a way to prospectively record how he is affected (or not) through the suprelorin implant. Not just from a behaviour perspective, not that we expect to see any day to day changes. From a physical perspective..how much have we had to adjust his food intake to maintain his current weight for example? Interestingly, during the testosterone surge, his weight has dropped slightly on the same quantity of feed..Exercise amounts have remained the same.
3-week update:
Finally, the testosterone surge is over. Benson is so much happier and maybe a more accurate description is more relaxed. No more intense sniffing, or being dragged around on the lead. He is also far more focused on training, which is a surprise.
Over the next few weeks, we should be seeing the same behaviour patterns associated with surgical castration. Still early days, the whole process takes between 40 and 60 days to see an effect from the chemical castration.
*Note: subsequent implant showed the surge lasted a bit longer.
4-week update:
Brief update: we certainly have a calmer dog. Sniffing as normal. Meaning the usual stop and sniff that I would expect, like the behaviour we see with Casper.
Focus and recall have improved. Now this could be just a coincidence, and things may change, it is still fairly early. Although the surge in testosterone was early and fairly dramatic.
What I didn't expect is the increased drive, around tennis balls, dummies etc...I really need to work on steadiness now, which I never imagined could ever be something I would have to consider. I throw a dummy, instead of sitting, bored waiting for me to coax a retrieve....he has gone racing after it! We are getting a nice, fast turnabout too, that could be due training or a combination of factors.... as he is staying closer I am not having to actually recall him as much as previously. In addition, I am being really selective about when I recall him, allowing him to choose to come back. If I think I will get a good, fast recall then I whistle and Benson gets a happy jackpot, plus a quick retrieve with a squeaky ball. Will have to mull over that one a bit. *Note: for sure training was much easier without the distraction of hormone-driven behaviours
He is also more affectionate, a pain really as he now insists on sitting on my lap!
Appearance and weight..in moult so hard to tell..weight as gone from 28.8 kg to 29.3 kg. He was weighed though after a swim, in a wet harness. He looks and feels right though, he was a shade on the light side when we weighed his last,(a month ago) considering his age, he probably easily get away with another .5kg or do without worrying.
*Note: There is definitely a difference in fur texture with superlorin, being slightly coarser, this may be more noticeable in dogs with a double coat. Suprelorin implant has agonistic activity on all testosterone, whereas surgical castration has an effect on the gonads, so surgical castration would leave around 10% circulating hormone. (very approximated!) Weight even on a reduction in diet, around 20 - 30%, hovers around 1.5kg above his cruising "entire" weight.
6-week update.
A key update as this is when we expect to see an improvement overall, that's if the original behaviours observed were influenced by testosterone.
So what have we observed?
Pre and immediately post-implant: (surge of testosterone due to implant) and at 6 weeks...
1. Increased sniffing - marked reduction in intensity
2. Increased excitement - whining in anticipation of a walk.,( probably due to a bitch in season )- normal excitement, levels, calm in the car
3. Increased distraction to the point of impossible to train in areas where other dogs have been. - no problem now, if anything an increase in trainability around other dogs
4. Increased marking (growling after marking) stopped completely. Still obviously stops to sniff and wee, but nothing like our previous experience of having one's arm pulled out of its socket!
Other observations:
Weight, exactly the same - around 28.8 kgs. Though being a young energetic dog wouldn't have really expected to see any change here. *Note: weight did change eventually, as noted above.
Roaming - This appears to have stopped.(everything crossed on this one!)
Personalty - no change, maybe slightly more affectionate and playful,
Training - this has been a surprise, as he seems to be more attentive. Managed to retrain the stop whistle which had fallen apart somewhat.
Err...his bits have definitely started to shrink
*Note: testicles start to shrink at about 6- 8 weeks on the implant. After 7 months on the implant, they slowly start to swell as the implant slowly wears off. After the effects have worn off there was no discernible difference before and after.
What we do have of course, is a young chocolate labrador, who is a handful, and needs lots of training. It certainly feels that the driven and intense behaviour has dissipated somewhat which is good.This allows me to relax more when out with Benson, and not to panic when he is out of sight. Now I am confident he will come back, the necessity of using recall so often has reduced, meaning I can work on a tighter response to the whistle.
2 months with the suprelorin implant.
I am starting to think that it really is just like the effect of surgical castration. Huge improvement in focus, responsiveness and staying close. Was a bit worried re: nervousness as we did have a rather assertive foster here, at times it was clear Benson felt uncomfortable. Everything is fine though, not change in dog to dog interactions off or on lead.
There is some interest in bitches in season, but nothing like we experienced before. A bitch was off lead, in season and in our local woods this morning, Benson was very interested, and kept wanting to go back to her. Once we got about 150m metres away he as back to normal, and has been fairly relaxed at home. It would have been a very different picture if he was still producing testosterone at the same levels before the implant. I don't know, however, if castrated dogs have any interest in bitches in season? I am sure I have read somewhere they do, misremember where though.
One change I have noticed fairly recently is an increase in appetite. So have changed to a lower fat content feed and considering changing to a slow eating bowl, this way it will slow his eating and hope he will feel more satisfied. Plus adding more low-fat frozen kongs, fish chews etc.. It can't be fun if he feels hungry.
His coat doesn't seem quite as glossy as usual, his fur feels less soft, but that may be due to coming to the end of his moult, . He had the implant just before the onset of his moult so not sure if that has any bearing on the quality/ condition. Casper has a beautiful glossy coat now, and interesting he had just been castrated when he came to us, with quite a dull coat then.
Benson had a week and a half ago. We were wanting to surgically castrate, however, due to work/holiday commitments we couldn't. We now feel that Benson at 19 months old is now sexually mature, so after lengthy discussions with our vet, we opted for Suprelorin. The main advantage over surgical castration is that it is reversible.
Suprelorin is an implant, (GnRH-agonist deslorelin). which works by initially stimulating testosterone causing a flood through the system in the first few weeks followed by production of testosterone being switched off. Sperm should be sterile after 6 weeks. Changes in behaviour, if notably affected by testosterone, are observed around this time.
There are two doses available 4.7mg and 9,4mg. 4.7mg is the most commonly used and is effective for around 6 months. 9.4mg is for a longer period 12months or more.
A good reference here: http://www.ema.europa.eu/docs/en_GB..._the_public/veterinary/000109/WC500068830.pdf
NOAH : http://www.noahcompendium.co.uk/Virbac_Limited/Suprelorin_4_7_mg_implant_for_dogs/-48970.html
I haven't found much information regarding what the initial surge looks like, and sifting through the internet can be a minefield! It is certainly worth being aware of, although I appreciate each dog is different.
What we have seen so far: ( 13 days post implant)
1. Increased sniffing
2. Increased excitement - whining in anticipation of a walk.
3. Increased distraction to the point of impossible to train in areas where other dogs have been.
4. Increased marking (growling after marking)
The above are the reasons why we are considering castration anyway, they have just become intensified, and causing Benson some frustration. Luckily we are able to walk in our own fields where no other dogs have been, and then we have a completely different dog, relaxed and very focused. There are lots of distractions and scents...fox, deer and rabbit but no dog scent
I am wondering if the consequence of castrating some dogs during adolescence or before has more of an impact on behaviour than we realise, combined with inadequate training = badly behaved dog? We know there is a natural surge of testosterone during this period. Another thought is the castration itself, is this process managed as well as it could be in general? I have spoken to a behaviourist at length about this, how is the anaesthetic administered/can the owner be with the dog during the recovery period? Are they brought around too quickly? Just musings on my part, but I do hear a lot that the first significant signs of nervousness experienced by a dog were actually at the vets.
Benson has had some heart-stopping moments due to the fact he is entire..I wouldn't wish those on anyone. We haven't though experienced aggression from any dog towards him though,(castrated or not) and nor any aggression from Benson, he will grumble if another even attempts to mount him, and always the other dog backs off without a second warning, then play resumes
We want the best for Benson, so the log is a way to prospectively record how he is affected (or not) through the suprelorin implant. Not just from a behaviour perspective, not that we expect to see any day to day changes. From a physical perspective..how much have we had to adjust his food intake to maintain his current weight for example? Interestingly, during the testosterone surge, his weight has dropped slightly on the same quantity of feed..Exercise amounts have remained the same.
3-week update:
Finally, the testosterone surge is over. Benson is so much happier and maybe a more accurate description is more relaxed. No more intense sniffing, or being dragged around on the lead. He is also far more focused on training, which is a surprise.
Over the next few weeks, we should be seeing the same behaviour patterns associated with surgical castration. Still early days, the whole process takes between 40 and 60 days to see an effect from the chemical castration.
*Note: subsequent implant showed the surge lasted a bit longer.
4-week update:
Brief update: we certainly have a calmer dog. Sniffing as normal. Meaning the usual stop and sniff that I would expect, like the behaviour we see with Casper.
Focus and recall have improved. Now this could be just a coincidence, and things may change, it is still fairly early. Although the surge in testosterone was early and fairly dramatic.
What I didn't expect is the increased drive, around tennis balls, dummies etc...I really need to work on steadiness now, which I never imagined could ever be something I would have to consider. I throw a dummy, instead of sitting, bored waiting for me to coax a retrieve....he has gone racing after it! We are getting a nice, fast turnabout too, that could be due training or a combination of factors.... as he is staying closer I am not having to actually recall him as much as previously. In addition, I am being really selective about when I recall him, allowing him to choose to come back. If I think I will get a good, fast recall then I whistle and Benson gets a happy jackpot, plus a quick retrieve with a squeaky ball. Will have to mull over that one a bit. *Note: for sure training was much easier without the distraction of hormone-driven behaviours
He is also more affectionate, a pain really as he now insists on sitting on my lap!
Appearance and weight..in moult so hard to tell..weight as gone from 28.8 kg to 29.3 kg. He was weighed though after a swim, in a wet harness. He looks and feels right though, he was a shade on the light side when we weighed his last,(a month ago) considering his age, he probably easily get away with another .5kg or do without worrying.
*Note: There is definitely a difference in fur texture with superlorin, being slightly coarser, this may be more noticeable in dogs with a double coat. Suprelorin implant has agonistic activity on all testosterone, whereas surgical castration has an effect on the gonads, so surgical castration would leave around 10% circulating hormone. (very approximated!) Weight even on a reduction in diet, around 20 - 30%, hovers around 1.5kg above his cruising "entire" weight.
6-week update.
A key update as this is when we expect to see an improvement overall, that's if the original behaviours observed were influenced by testosterone.
So what have we observed?
Pre and immediately post-implant: (surge of testosterone due to implant) and at 6 weeks...
1. Increased sniffing - marked reduction in intensity
2. Increased excitement - whining in anticipation of a walk.,( probably due to a bitch in season )- normal excitement, levels, calm in the car
3. Increased distraction to the point of impossible to train in areas where other dogs have been. - no problem now, if anything an increase in trainability around other dogs
4. Increased marking (growling after marking) stopped completely. Still obviously stops to sniff and wee, but nothing like our previous experience of having one's arm pulled out of its socket!
Other observations:
Weight, exactly the same - around 28.8 kgs. Though being a young energetic dog wouldn't have really expected to see any change here. *Note: weight did change eventually, as noted above.
Roaming - This appears to have stopped.(everything crossed on this one!)
Personalty - no change, maybe slightly more affectionate and playful,
Training - this has been a surprise, as he seems to be more attentive. Managed to retrain the stop whistle which had fallen apart somewhat.
Err...his bits have definitely started to shrink
What we do have of course, is a young chocolate labrador, who is a handful, and needs lots of training. It certainly feels that the driven and intense behaviour has dissipated somewhat which is good.This allows me to relax more when out with Benson, and not to panic when he is out of sight. Now I am confident he will come back, the necessity of using recall so often has reduced, meaning I can work on a tighter response to the whistle.
2 months with the suprelorin implant.
I am starting to think that it really is just like the effect of surgical castration. Huge improvement in focus, responsiveness and staying close. Was a bit worried re: nervousness as we did have a rather assertive foster here, at times it was clear Benson felt uncomfortable. Everything is fine though, not change in dog to dog interactions off or on lead.
There is some interest in bitches in season, but nothing like we experienced before. A bitch was off lead, in season and in our local woods this morning, Benson was very interested, and kept wanting to go back to her. Once we got about 150m metres away he as back to normal, and has been fairly relaxed at home. It would have been a very different picture if he was still producing testosterone at the same levels before the implant. I don't know, however, if castrated dogs have any interest in bitches in season? I am sure I have read somewhere they do, misremember where though.
One change I have noticed fairly recently is an increase in appetite. So have changed to a lower fat content feed and considering changing to a slow eating bowl, this way it will slow his eating and hope he will feel more satisfied. Plus adding more low-fat frozen kongs, fish chews etc.. It can't be fun if he feels hungry.
His coat doesn't seem quite as glossy as usual, his fur feels less soft, but that may be due to coming to the end of his moult, . He had the implant just before the onset of his moult so not sure if that has any bearing on the quality/ condition. Casper has a beautiful glossy coat now, and interesting he had just been castrated when he came to us, with quite a dull coat then.
