Training 'down-without-sit'

Joy

Joy

Location
East Sussex
I can't believe that with Molly at nine years old we're still working at this! I decided to spend the winter doing just 3 repetitions a day to see if we can crack it. There's no point in entering her for rally classes at the level she's at (L5 &6) unless we can achieve this. Molly is completely happy to practise and we usually do them when out on a walk but today I decided to try at home so I could video. This one would be acceptable (the dog simply has to lie down without sitting first) but Molly hasn't really internalised the learning - if it's in a string of exercises she reverts to sit-then-down.
While I'd like to achieve this, I'm not upset at the thought it may never happen. Molly has done me proud with her Rally successes, and we'll continue to do the easier exercises on walks because she prods me with her nose to remind me!
I've trained Rajah and Tess to do this sort of down from the word go, and plan to take Tess to her first 'live' show in the spring.

 
Candy

Candy

Biscuit Tin Guardian
Location
West Yorkshire, UK
Joy said:
I can't believe that with Molly at nine years old we're still working at this! I decided to spend the winter doing just 3 repetitions a day to see if we can crack it. There's no point in entering her for rally classes at the level she's at (L5 &6) unless we can achieve this. Molly is completely happy to practise and we usually do them when out on a walk but today I decided to try at home so I could video. This one would be acceptable (the dog simply has to lie down without sitting first) but Molly hasn't really internalised the learning - if it's in a string of exercises she reverts to sit-then-down.
While I'd like to achieve this, I'm not upset at the thought it may never happen. Molly has done me proud with her Rally successes, and we'll continue to do the easier exercises on walks because she prods me with her nose to remind me!
I've trained Rajah and Tess to do this sort of down from the word go, and plan to take Tess to her first 'live' show in the spring.

Click to expand...
That looks like quite a difficult thing to teach to me, I think that lovely Molly is doing pretty well!👍❤
 
Candy

Candy

Biscuit Tin Guardian
Location
West Yorkshire, UK
When I took GGJ to puppy classes when she was Veryvery small (5 months at the start) the only thing she hadn't achieved by the end of the 8 weeks was the 2 minute lie down, stay. That was partly ( possibly mostly) my fault because it was So Boring! Also I really felt it was practically impossible for such a young pup to lie down and stay for two minutes with all the distractions of the other dogs and people. She managed all the rest and came top in recall and 'checking in', the former because she didn't like being away from me, the latter because she was totally bribed with Sossij every single time.
I think that perhaps to a certain extent our dogs learn what we feel we most need them to learn, in that those are the behaviours we most reward, even if we don't realise fully that we're doing that. Having said that, I have no experience of training for competitions like you have, only for my dog's safety and my own convenience, so probably it's different....bit of a ramble, sorry, but having been able to take GGJ on our first 'normal ' walk for a while today, I have realised how much I have inadvertently trained and also how much she has missed these day to day rituals/games (I hesitate to call it 'training ' because it's all basically just habits that we've fallen into together for the sake of safety/convenience) also tonight she has been more settled than she has since I stopped being able to walk her, so I'm starting to understand that not only is she kept safe by this 'training ', she actually enjoys the routine of it all. Long post, bit rambling, sorry, but seeing how much of a difference getting back to our normal routine, including what she expects me to ask from her under certain situations has made to her general happiness and wellbeing has been quite an eye opener for me today. Also so lovely to see that she enjoys it all and misses it when it doesn't happen, rather than seeing it as a chore, or me imposing my wishes on her. Lots of food for thought there.....
 
Selina27

Selina27

Location
Herefordshire, UK
Well done Molly and @Joy. I think it's great that you still have something to work on and enjoy doing so together. As you say she has nothing to prove, so she's under no pressure.

How exciting to have Rajah and Tess waiting in the wings, I look forward to following their progress.

I've noticed with Cass since starting to do scentwork how much more alert she seems and how she's gone back to the "hide and seek" games she evolved for herself as a youngster. I think it's her way of indicating she wants to do something, much like Molly nudging you!

@Candy, I agree with what you say, see my post in the walking thread!
 
edzbird

edzbird

Location
Isle of Man
Candy said:
When I took GGJ to puppy classes when she was Veryvery small (5 months at the start) the only thing she hadn't achieved by the end of the 8 weeks was the 2 minute lie down, stay. That was partly ( possibly mostly) my fault because it was So Boring! Also I really felt it was practically impossible for such a young pup to lie down and stay for two minutes with all the distractions of the other dogs and people. She managed all the rest and came top in recall and 'checking in', the former because she didn't like being away from me, the latter because she was totally bribed with Sossij every single time.
I think that perhaps to a certain extent our dogs learn what we feel we most need them to learn, in that those are the behaviours we most reward, even if we don't realise fully that we're doing that. Having said that, I have no experience of training for competitions like you have, only for my dog's safety and my own convenience, so probably it's different....bit of a ramble, sorry, but having been able to take GGJ on our first 'normal ' walk for a while today, I have realised how much I have inadvertently trained and also how much she has missed these day to day rituals/games (I hesitate to call it 'training ' because it's all basically just habits that we've fallen into together for the sake of safety/convenience) also tonight she has been more settled than she has since I stopped being able to walk her, so I'm starting to understand that not only is she kept safe by this 'training ', she actually enjoys the routine of it all. Long post, bit rambling, sorry, but seeing how much of a difference getting back to our normal routine, including what she expects me to ask from her under certain situations has made to her general happiness and wellbeing has been quite an eye opener for me today. Also so lovely to see that she enjoys it all and misses it when it doesn't happen, rather than seeing it as a chore, or me imposing my wishes on her. Lots of food for thought there.....
Click to expand...
Long and rambling? Maybe. Total sense - absolutely. Our dogs view all training as just fun, else they wouldn't join in. Our goal is to have all the routine stuff be habit. Well said @Candy .
 
Joy

Joy

Location
East Sussex
Jelinga said:
Just a thought @Joy, I see Molly goes down bottom first, could you train her to go down front first and then it may not be so easy to go into a sit rather than a down.
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That's a great idea and I have tried this in the past but I just can't get her to do it. I've had limited success with holding a treat under a chair and she has lowered her front half to get at it, and then lowered her back when I didn't let go of the treat. But as soon as she realised that I released the treat once she was lying down, the next time she simply lay down. I can see I haven't set clear enough criteria for when I'm going to reward - I tend to think 'oh bless her, she's trying', and give the treat!!
 
Stacia

Stacia

Location
Malvern Worcestershire
Joy said:
That's a great idea and I have tried this in the past but I just can't get her to do it. I've had limited success with holding a treat under a chair and she has lowered her front half to get at it, and then lowered her back when I didn't let go of the treat. But as soon as she realised that I released the treat once she was lying down, the next time she simply lay down. I can see I haven't set clear enough criteria for when I'm going to reward - I tend to think 'oh bless her, she's trying', and give the treat!!
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So dear little Molly thought she was doing what you wanted :giggle: I trained by lowering the treat from her nose to the ground and the the front legs bend and the back end follows!
 
Candy

Candy

Biscuit Tin Guardian
Location
West Yorkshire, UK
Joy said:
That's a great idea and I have tried this in the past but I just can't get her to do it. I've had limited success with holding a treat under a chair and she has lowered her front half to get at it, and then lowered her back when I didn't let go of the treat. But as soon as she realised that I released the treat once she was lying down, the next time she simply lay down. I can see I haven't set clear enough criteria for when I'm going to reward - I tend to think 'oh bless her, she's trying', and give the treat!!
Click to expand...
Just what I'd do!:giggl:
 
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