Another Incident!

[David]

This morning the Pop Dog gets the blame again. I'm starting to really think it's me but there is an issue I need to address.

Walking with Poppy we met 2 Pointers, a Yorky, a bitsa something or other, and Alsatian and a Jack Russell. All no problem. Then we rounded a corner with Poppy a little ahead and came face to face with 2 dogs on leads. Poppy goes flat and I go paddling up to put her on the lead when the couple go oohing and aahing about how lovely Poppy is and don't be shy etc. So I relax. Pops stands and says hello to one of the two dogs all waggy tail then says hello to the other dog and as she approaches the owner pulls her dog back and says she can be a bit snappy at which point she bit Poppy on the side of the face. Do I need to paint a picture of what happened next? The Pop Dog went ballistic but in an all mouth and no trousers way lunging at the other dog and dodging back while going round the pair in a circle making it impossible for me to grab Poppy. The other dog then whirled on it's owner and bit her on the arm drawing blood with it's tiny, obviously needle sharp, teeth. I get Poppy on the lead at that time to cries of "She bit me". So instead of placations I was forced in to sorry you've been bitten but to be clear it was your dog turned on you and bit you not my dog.

Anyway the issue for me is I must get Poppy to hear me when she's excited. She goes completely deaf and then a situation like today can so easily kick off. I'm at a bit of a loss on this one. I'll raise it with Judy at gundog training next week. We've got Poppy in a group so it might be a good time to look at this at the same time.

We went a little further and met Gordon, the yellow Lab about 18 months old. Poppy played with him boxing then his owner called him off. Poppy wouldn't break away and went with Gordon to his owner who raised his hand above his head and both dogs promptly sat at his feet until I got there and popped Poppy's lead on. I said "I see we use the same hand signals".

Back to this morning's incident, it wasn't such a big problem before Lockdown. Walking with Lady we met very few other problem dogs on our walks, but now with Poppy there must be getting on for a dozen that we meet on a regular basis. They are either rescues or just really badly socialised as far as I can tell. Walking in some places can be a series of on/off lead exercises. I'll square it up with the couple I met this morning if our paths cross again, but really I think they must accept that with the best will in the world accidental encounters are going to happen and it's not actually my dog or me that's the problem - I can only do my best and if I make the odd mistake it's really not my problem. (Or is that wrong thinking on my part - I really don't know now).

R tends to leap in with apologies because she's much nicer then me that way but I tend to see that as ending up with Poppy getting a really bad reputation undeservedly. I think she's probably right but was it actually just one of those things at the end of the day? Do i need to get to the Empathy Is Us store?

 

[Stacia]

Loads of empathy from me David. These things happen and I feel people don't really understand dog behaviour. Do you have to walk where there are so many dog?

My neighbours across the lane have a daughter in law who had a huge white dog, can't remember the breed, but it was much larger than a GSD and of very dubious character. One day I had Rourke on a lead talking to another neighbour when this dog got out and came barrelling across the lane, with intent to murder mine, I tried to get it to get off but it didn't, Rourke then did a Poppy and fought back. The poor son came across and he was so upset and in a state, I thought he was going to have a heart attack! I told him not to worry, dogs will be dogs and the only thing was if Rourke needed to go to a vet, then he could pay! We arrived home and it was so interesting, although it had sounded like a very fierce fight, every bite slobber I investigated had not gone into a real bite, it was all mouth and trousers. Even more interesting, Rourke has become good with other dogs, before I wasn't quite sure how he would re-act, now he is friendly.

My trainer said not to let dogs play as it can turn into a fight, so mine have not played, however, we do walk often with eight dogs and they all walk well together off lead investigating interesting smells and communicating with each other. I am sure your gundog trainer will reassure you.

 

[Atemas]

it wasn't such a big problem before Lockdown. Walking with Lady we met very few other problem dogs on our walks,

I hear you - I am finding the same here at times.

Walking in some places can be a series of on/off lead exercises especially on weekend walks

Yes. I dislike those walks when I am having to keep putting Red’s lead on and off because so many dogs are being walked on lead.

Poppy goes flat

Red does this quite a lot. I can find it a bit frustrating as I’m not sure how she will react. She doesn’t like small yappy/barky dogs and will sometimes do the ‘all mouth and no trousers’ behaviour which I have tried to train out but failed. F does not have this problem with her so I know it‘s something I’ve done - because of it I will have some less enjoyable walks - fortunately outweighed by quiet walks or walks where we meet her group of doggy friends. They definitely fall into two categories - dogs she likes and dogs she is I think scared of.

Poppy getting a really bad reputation undeservedly

I understand what you mean by this. It’s upsetting as you know Poppy is a good dog. Onwards and forwards

 

[Candy]

So sorry this happened David, most unpleasant for all involved I'm sure. However I can't see that it was your fault or Poppy's. You were about to put Poppy on lead, as I would with Joy if we were approaching on lead dogs, when the dogs' owners made it appear as if this wasn't necessary. They could perhaps have warned you that one of their dogs was 'A bit snappy ' (sounds like a lot snappy to me, to bite a dog approaching in a friendly manner and then turn on it's owner) before Poppy approached and then the whole incident would have been avoided. OK, so Poppy didn't recall when you asked her to, but I imagine she would have been beyond threshold by then, having just been bitten on her face, poor girl! I wonder if she has ever been bitten before, apart from by litter mates in play. It must have been upsetting and frightening for her.
You're doing so much good work with Poppy, don't beat yourself up for something that boils down to being poor handling of a situation by other people.

 

[Candy]

Just to add, I agree with both you and @Atemas about seeing far more people having problems with their dogs and keeping them on leads than prior to Covid and the lockdown.

 

[edzbird]

Sorry for you Incident, but you know it's not Poppy. Not that it makes it any easier. You are a great mentor and advocate for Poppy, just keep doing what you do.

I have the dog from hell (Meg). I cannot walk her anywhere off lead, just in case. So I only walk her on the roads. And I have to plan my time/route to ensure we meet no-one. But sometimes we do, and I know I communicate my stress to her which sends her skywards, but I don't know how to change. She needs exercise so out we go. For off lead, I rent a field but I can't do that everyday - maybe once a week, truthfully less. We're all doing our out and out best for our dogs and it's so upsetting when anything "unpleasant" occurs. I think expressing it on here helps unwind it all, so keep on.

 

[Cath]

So sorry David, but it was their dog not Poppy. Since lockdown I go out very early when there are no other dogs around.

Some people have no idea how to train a dog. A man this morning walked passed our house, his dog was about 10 yards in front of him and he just

kept shouting heel

 

[Emily]

Oh I'm so sorry you're finding yourself in this type of situation again.

I find these days that 99% of the time I actively discourage any interaction between Ella and other dogs. I have a couple of friends with dogs and I allow interaction in controlled settings and I tend to allow play with (some - if I feel it's the right dog, right situation and have spoken to the other human) other labs/GRs as Ella can be quite breedist but that's about it.

 

[David]

Do you have to walk where there are so many dog?

I actually normally walk on the farm where I shoot. Most of it is very quiet and if we do meet another dog you can see it coming from a long way off. However, one field is "open access" and it's there where, I should think, 90% of the difficult dogs are. This weather it's also where Poppy can least controversially get in the river to cool off so we tend to walk that way. I go out early to avoid the heat but it didn't pan out today because we met loads of people doing the same thing all the way around.

They could perhaps have warned you that one of their dogs was 'A bit snappy ' (sounds like a lot snappy to me, to bite a dog approaching in a friendly manner and then turn on it's owner) before Poppy approached and then the whole incident would have been avoided.

Actually when the dogs got stuck in I noticed the snappy dog had a loop round it's nose so clearly all sorts of difficulty.

.... don't beat yourself up for something that boils down to being poor handling of a situation by other people.

I truth I think I should have stepped in quicker.

 

[David]

Some people have no idea how to train a dog. A man this morning walked passed our house, his dog was about 10 yards in front of him and he just

keep shouting heel

Sounds like me shout "here" to no avail on gundog training. Again back to this morning, we came across a cat sunbathing. Cats are definitely there to be dealt with severely by the Pop Dog. However .....

One lunge by Poppy then a very firm "LEAVE IT" from me and bowl me over with a feather, she stopped and sat! Some of it works some of the time.

Oh I'm so sorry you're finding yourself in this type of situation again.

I find these days that 99% of the time I actively discourage any interaction between Ella and other dogs. I have a couple of friends with dogs and I allow interaction in controlled settings and I tend to allow play with (some - if I feel it's the right dog, right situation and have spoken to the other human) other labs/GRs as Ella can be quite breedist but that's about it.

Sorry you are having similar difficulties. I've been taking the view that more interaction coupled with Poppy growing up will help. Maybe I should be more on top of things but I find it's a difficult balancing act that sometimes goes a bit south.

 

[Selina27]

Sorry you've had this incident with the Pop Dog.
One of the games I have played with Cass is "This way" which is a really simple way of encouraging them to stay close to us in a fun way. I learnt off the connect with your dog improve your recall in 3 weeks thingy.
It involves using a high value treat on the ground at your feet and move about and keep doing it and call out "this way" as they are running to you for their reward.
Cass absolutely loves it and I find that calling "this way" gets her coming away from social situations more than anything else.
It seems to work better than any more formal recall cues, for us anyway.!

 

[Atemas]

I find that calling "this way" gets her coming away

This works with Red too - something business like about those two words

 

[Stacia]

Sorry you've had this incident with the Pop Dog.
One of the games I have played with Cass is "This way" which is a really simple way of encouraging them to stay close to us in a fun way. I learnt off the connect with your dog improve your recall in 3 weeks thingy.
It involves using a high value treat on the ground at your feet and move about and keep doing it and call out "this way" as they are running to you for their reward.
Cass absolutely loves it and I find that calling "this way" gets her coming away from social situations more than anything else.
It seems to work better than any more formal recall cues, for us anyway.!

I was taught it is better to turn and say 'this way' than to keep repeating the 'come' word when they don't!

 

[Lisa]

I’m sorry, David. I can’t see that you did anything wrong. The other snappy dog seems a bit of a nightmare tbh. Simba is almost always on lead, as is 99% of the dogs we meet. If the dog is off-lead it means it is without an owner. I don’t like meeting an off-lead dog as you never know if they are friendly and Simba is trapped on his lead. I will drop the lead if I feel he needs space but as we are walking alongside roads I don’t like to do that either.

 

[David]

This morning we had "training" in the shade of an oak tree where the shadow had been made very long by the low morning sun. After "we'd" got over the running off to bury the dummy issues, it was all going reasonably well when a couple with a young pointer on a lead appeared. Poppy noticed them and went deaf. She walked over to the couple and rushed up to the dog. They both wagged. I said "Sorry she's gone deaf". The woman said it was all fine - young dog etc and promptly let her dog off the lead. The two dogs had a lovely time. She said sorry they spoilt the training. I said they hadn't at all and it wasn't going brilliantly as evidenced by the going deaf when Poppy spotted them, but Poppy loves pointers. She said same with her dog but with Labs, although none of the Labs their dog played with were as athletic as Poppy and she seemed much lighter in weight then other Labs they knew. I said they were probably overweight. At that point the two dogs decided they'd had enough and went off to do some independent sniffing.

Later on the walk after the training session we met a spaniel off-lead, a Lab off-lead, a Yorky on lead and another small dog on-lead. No issues with any of them.

Pops is having a sleep at the moment while I type this. Another coffee is called for. All is right with the world again!

 

[Selina27]

Good to read you've had a better experience this morning @David .

 

[Cath]

What a lovely read David

 

[MellowYellow]

The truth is David, all dogs are going to have a nasty experience with another dog at some time or other. It doesn't sound like Poppy did anything wrong other than not coming when you called her (and tbh it is very, very hard for a dog to recall when they are right in the middle of a situation where they are trying to work out whether the other dog is Friend or Foe... they are so focussed, they seem to find it sometimes almost impossible to snap out of that fixation). Don't let it get you down. And then the lovely walk you had this morning must build up both your and her confidence again. Onwards and upwards!

 

[David]

The truth is David, all dogs are going to have a nasty experience with another dog at some time or other. It doesn't sound like Poppy did anything wrong other than not coming when you called her (and tbh it is very, very hard for a dog to recall when they are right in the middle of a situation where they are trying to work out whether the other dog is Friend or Foe... they are so focussed, they seem to find it sometimes almost impossible to snap out of that fixation). Don't let it get you down. And then the lovely walk you had this morning must build up both your and her confidence again. Onwards and upwards!

Yes, with you on that. I just always find it hard to deal with situations that don't go the way I'd like. It helps to write it all down, I find.

 

[kateincornwall]

So pleased that this morning was a positive one for you both . I also use the ` this way ` for Reuben, it works ( most of the time ! ) Keep the faith xx