Barking

[SteffiS]

Toffee has always been a 'barky' dog, something I’ve not had before. Now we appear to be going through a stage, (well I sincerely hope it’s only a stage) , of barking at all sorts of noises, shadows and reflections in the house. I just got up from the table with my soup bowl and he rushed out of bed and barked really loudly, making me jump so much it was a good job my bowl was empty. This sort of thing happens several times every day, usually for no reason I can see, and generally such a loud bark that I jump out of my skin.
Please tell me it is just a stage, and what’s the best way to deal with it? If I reassure him it’s nothing is it actually reinforcing that there is something to be concerned about? Poor Ripple snored really loudly yesterday and Toffee leapt up and barked at him, Ripple then leapt up as well probably wondering what Toffee was barking at.
I don’t ever remember going through this with my other labs so I am at a bit of a loss to know what to do.

 

[HAH]

This is a bit tricky @SteffiS , and I don’t have much wisdom to offer - hopefully more experienced heads can advise in time. It sounds like it might be alert barking rather than just for attention, so I wonder if it’s linked with a fear phase for Toffee? Maybe increased sensitivity, heightened arousal generally? I’m not keen on the wording of ‘fear phase’ as it sounds extreme and negative (I’d prefer something like ‘heightened sensitivity’ phase) but we’ve been through a few with Kipper and he’s definitely more alert to noise, more reactive to new and unexpected things and generally more on his toes. If it is this sort of thing, I try to take the fireworks approach - gentle reassurance, not making a big deal and if needed a scatter just to take anxiety levels down. But I definitely tiptoe more during these phases!

 

[FayRose]

I sympathise with you @SteffiS , that sounds like a worrying habit developing.
Unfortunately I can't offer any explanation, although I'm sure others will help. I'll just say I really hope it is a phase, like you say and will stop soon.

Until Molly, we always had 2 dogs and my experience was that the youngster learned from the older, including when to bark, so again it seems odd that Toffee is behaving differently to Ripple.

Good luck with getting to the bottom of it.

 

[snowbunny]

If I reassure him it’s nothing is it actually reinforcing that there is something to be concerned about?

No. But it might not help, either.

I wouldn't guarantee that he'll grow out of it. He might, or it might stay the same, or get worse. In general, the more a behaviour is practiced, the more it's likely to happen again in the future.

My approach would be the same as any alert barking - trying to pair the trigger with something relaxing and reinforcing. The easiest thing to do is a food scatter. Chuck food on the floor by your feet (give a "scatter" cue if you need) so that he starts to come to you on hearing the noise, and snuffles around at your feet. For many dogs, the act of sniffing and eating is calming. If it's not (Shadow can stay aroused), then once he's snuffled out that food, I deliberately place individual pieces of food on the floor. Because those pieces aren't bouncing, they're less exciting and that brings the arousal down.

Over time, you'll likely find that his barking will become less at each instance. What this progression looked like for Shadow with noises outside was a bit like this:

> Noise outside, Shadow runs to the door barking manically. I throw food at my feet and say "scatter". Shadow would continue to bark, sometimes run between me and the door, mainly ignored the food, until he calmed down, at which point, I would continue to feed at my feet.

> Noise outside, Shadow runs to the door, barking manically. I throw food at my feet and say "scatter". Shadow would break off to run to me, grab some food, run back to the door, come back etc. Calming would happen a little more quickly.

> Noise outside, Shadow runs to the door barking, I say "scatter", and he come to me to eat the food. He might gruff in place a few times. I continue to feed until he is calm (no looking at the door, no ear flicks towards it etc).

> Noise outside, Shadow runs to ME barking. No need to say "scatter", I just feed on the floor, as above, until calm.

> Noise outside, Shadow looks at the door and gruffs, then comes to me. No "scatter" cue, just feeding until he dismisses.

That's pretty much where we got to before I left Andorra. The level of noise he was responding to changed over the process, too. At first, he would react to any sound of any door closing, any footsteps etc. By the end, he wouldn't respond to a group of kids shouting in the hallway. It was more unexpected noises, but the general apartment block noise just became normalised to him.

I did also set up scenarios where I would knock on furniture, the door etc as "training", but I think this was actually less effective than simply responding to the world as it happened; he definitely cottoned on quickly to the fact it was me making the noises! That said, it's worth trying that approach of making the noises yourself to see if it helps.You preferably want to set it up with noises that are under his response threshold, so you don't get a response at all, and you can just pair unexpected noises with a scatter by your feet.

 

[SteffiS]

That all makes sense @snowbunny , I was worried that food would reward the barking but I can see how scatter would work. Toffee doesn’t seem to be barking at anything really tangible, people, cats, cars etc, it’s always so unexpected that it really makes me jump and my default reaction is - not very helpful, I’ll definitely try the scatter.

@FayRose for all Ripple’s faults this isn’t one of them, hopefully Toffee will learn from him not to bark.

What with the FOMO barking every time I take Ripple for a wee, and this barking, which seems to be worse at the moment due to the high winds making noise and causing reflections, I’m just really glad my neighbours aren’t too close otherwise I could imagine I’d be getting some complaints.

 

[snowbunny]

I was worried that food would reward the barking

That's where we need to make the distinction between behaviour that is "intentional", compared to behaviour that is a response to a trigger. So, let's say you have a dog that's barking in your face for attention, that is a behaviour strategy that the dog is trying in order to gain access to a reinforcer - you. So that's something that is appropriate to "train through" using operant methods (behaviour and consequence). In the latter case, what we should focus on is trying to address the emotion that is causing the behaviour. So, rather than providing a consequence for the behaviour itself, we are looking at changing the way the dog perceives the trigger, and this will cause the behaviour to disappear.

Thinking about it another way; take a dog who hears an unfamiliar noise and cowers away from it. In that situation, you could offer the same approach of a food scatter, and it might work in the same way - at first, the dog isn't interested in the food, but once he calms down, he starts to take it, and over the course of a few sessions, he starts to take the food earlier and earlier, until eventually the cowering disappears as the noise becomes a predictor of the food. None of us (I hope) would think that the food would be reinforcing the act of cowering, right? Yet, that cowering is just a behavioural manifestation of the fear, in the exact same way that barking is. Both have the same function - to create distance. So, although they look very different to us, the function is the same, the cause is the same, and they can be treated in the same way. We're using Pavlov here.

Now, don't get me wrong, it's impossible to completely separate operant conditioning (behaviour and consequence) from classical conditioning (pairing a stimulus with an outcome) and with Shadow, what also happened a couple of times is that he didn't alert bark but looked at me and gave a very definite WOOF - that was an intentional action and operantly conditioned by the food. He had made a picture of the whole lot and had come up with that solution. However, once you're at that stage, it's blatantly obvious that the dog is no longer having an emotional response to the trigger, and so at that stage you can go into using training methods to refine the end result. It doesn't mean you shouldn't use the procedure to classically condition your dog in the first instance, just that you might have to tweak it a bit once your dog is no longer reacting emotionally to the trigger.

I hope that makes sense!

 

[Beanwood]

Brilliant advice from @snowbunny. We did have something similar start when Benson was around a year old. He still does sometimes react to odd, startling noises, and unexpected "things" for example his reflection. I know for a fact we didn't habituate Benson to these sights and sounds, due to inexperience at the time, and he seemed so bombproof! Now we plan in advance. Avoid Benson resting on the stairs when it's dark, he can see reflections, and things look strange for some reason. Close curtains in front room. If he is a bit alert because he has been startled, we employ a calming game or frozen kong. A snuffle mat with a cue would be good, as hunting in a mat can be very calming for some dogs. Sometimes I just take him upstairs in one of the bedrooms and read quietly on the bed, while he is occupied on the bed with a kong. Benson knows "upstairs" is special, and where we go to sleep, so this calms him straightaway, plus changes the environment significantly avoiding subsequent "startles"

 

[SteffiS]

@snowbunny yes, I’ve read your post through a couple of times and I can clearly understand how this works (and why I was confused that the food would be a reward). I’m pretty sure I now have a good strategy to start dealing with this.

@Beanwood hopefully I can identify a few definite triggers to Toffee’s barking so I can minimise these as well as act on @snowbunny 's advice. As regards the snuffle mat, Toffee did have one but he ate most of it likewise I’m struggling with kongs as he keeps chewing them to pieces, but I am working on things he can have to chew which does seem to be calming for him. What would you say was a calming game? Most things I do seem to have the opposite effect.

 

[Boogie]

Sometimes it’s obvious why the dog is barking, sometime it isn’t. Quite often the ‘tone’ of the barking is different if they are reacting to a trigger.

Spencer has several -

Barking because he’s alarmed - strange object/noise.

Barking for attention ‘I want something’.

Barking at Tatze to try and goad her into playing. He does this at puppy class to the other pups too!

Barking because he’s bored bored bored and wants to get going.

The alarm barking started only a month or so ago and I always use food to deal with it. Barking for attention and barking because he’s bored I totally ignore - no words, no eye contact, back turned etc. Once he’s calm again I don’t ignore him, but he only gets any attention once he’s given up. This is usually signalled by a little grumble and a relaxed, head on the ground as if to sleep posture. (Human would be ‘humph!’). Barking at Tatze I just leave him to it unless it’s bothering her (which is probably why he does it at puppy class - ooops! )
.

 

[Beanwood]

@Beanwood hopefully I can identify a few definite triggers to Toffee’s barking so I can minimise these as well as act on @snowbunny 's advice. As regards the snuffle mat, Toffee did have one but he ate most of it likewise I’m struggling with kongs as he keeps chewing them to pieces, but I am working on things he can have to chew which does seem to be calming for him. What would you say was a calming game? Most things I do seem to have the opposite effect.

This leads me to ask another question, how easy it is for Toffee to relax? Or does he spend a lot of time a bit like a coiled spring? Of course, a fair amount of his excitability is probably due to his age. I remember clearly at 18 months convincing myself that Benson was the spawn of the devil!

 

[SteffiS]

Yes, @Boogie he definitely has different types of barking. Although the FOMO barking is very irritating, it’s this alarm barking that I’m going to work on. I’m assuming it’s something you come across quite often with all the pups you’ve had, I’ve certainly never had it like this before and Toffee is my fourth boy.
It’s so odd though, it always seems to be at nothing (in my eyes). Today a dog food delivery came, he backed down the lane to my house with vehicle bleeping, rummaged about outside and then rang the doorbell and knocked the door. Toffee got up and went to the door but didn’t bark at all.

I’ve been thinking about this @Beanwood , I think Toffee is reasonably relaxed, he likes to be near me but happily lies in his bed chewing his toys. I would have said he is more relaxed than Ripple at this age.

 

[Boogie]

Yes, @SteffiS - they all go through a phase of alarm barking once they start growing up. Twiglet was the worst, she’d bark at her own reflection!

 

[kateincornwall]

Reuben has just noticed his own reflection , in the bedroom mirror and the television too , plus he sometimes barks at animals on the television , thankfully not for long x

 

[Selina27]

plus he sometimes barks at animals on the television ,

Haha, I remember Cass doing that at around that age, I think it was countryfile, and and it was a shot of a cow face on walking towards the camera, I think she thought it was coming to get her

 

[SteffiS]

Well somebody’s cottoned on quick . After some alarm barking last night and a couple of times this morning, followed by a scatter, when he’d finished the last scatter just now he came right up to me and barked in my face, then looked pointedly at the floor .

 

[Stacia]

Well somebody’s cottoned on quick . After some alarm barking last night and a couple of times this morning, followed by a scatter, when he’d finished the last scatter just now he came right up to me and barked in my face, then looked pointedly at the floor .

Dogs are very clever, sometimes we inadvertently train for what we don't want, but I love the logical way they look at things

 

[snowbunny]

Hah, bless him! But that can be sorted out and I’d rather have a dog who looks at me and says “woof” compared to alert barking that goes on and on!

 

[Atemas]

Having a lab that doesn’t bark (can and has but only a handful of times in 12 years) it was a bit of a shock to get one that did/does. Red alert barks and has gone through a couple of fear stages in her 2 years. She is quite a reactive dog and also get easily spooked by things. Early on, I adopted the ‘listen to that’ approach to sudden noises or noises I could quickly recognise as alarming her and I would quietly calmly say ‘listen to that’. It stops her. DH on the other hand has a different approach and he just says ‘no barking’ kindly but firmly. She responds very well to both approaches so I have no advice I’m afraid @SteffiS other than hope Toffee is going through a phase. The only barking I haven’t been able to sort is when the two dogs living behind us do their blood curdling growling and quite honestly it freaks me out so I am not surprised Red’s hackles rise. With that though, I go to her at the fence and guide her away, quietly saying ‘inside’ - she seems to like the reassurance so whilst I am giving her attention it is minimal and seems to work well. Fortunately they are not often in their garden when we are in ours.

Red has been to the kennels for a week - I used to worry that she’d come home barking a lot as some dogs bark a lot but she doesn’t.