Dealing with sky high food drive - help!?

[Emily_Babbelhund]

Hey everyone, I'm really at my wits end with the Señor. After 2 months with my Dad feeding him pretty much constantly, he's now looking to me - OR ANY RANDOM STRANGER - to fill this roll now that we've left California. When we were in California 5 weeks in summer and then came back to Germany for 6 weeks, he was fine - snapped right back into his "just Carbon and ML behaviour", appropriate for an assistance dog. Now however frankly I'm ashamed to put his SD vest on him as he is not living up to his training.

He's still getting regular 2 meals a day from me plus I'm working with training treats (just kibble) pretty much constantly when we are out walking, which starting today and will be a lot every day over the next few weeks.

He seems to be always on high alert, trying to find another dog (LAT worked a little too well so other dogs = treats), pulling towards any human who looks remotely like they have food on them (ie ALL of them) and licking random things off the ground at every chance (which is dangerous). Despite years of walking well in tandem with me, he's pulling me off balance trying to get to some random food source. I got so mad at him tonight for nearly causing me to fall - the anti-service dog, you might say - and it's not his fault at all. He's like a cocaine addict who has had crack on drip for the past 2 months and now I expect him not to have the DTs.

I realise this is probably a futile question because he's a Labrador and this is what they do, but if anyone has any ideas about lowering/mitigating food drive, I'd love to hear them.

 

[Candy]

So sorry to hear that this is happening Emily, not your fault, nor Carbón's and I absolutely understand how difficult it would be to tell your Dad not to give him treats. No ideas either, I'm afraid, so pretty useless, but just wanted to send sympathy, it's so much more difficult to teach a dog to 'unlearn ' behaviour than it is to teach a behaviour in the first place. I hope someone with more experience than me can help. In the meantime, sympathy and

 

[Emily_Babbelhund]

Thank you @Candy

I was impossible to tell my Dad no. Or rather impossible to get him to listen when I said no. I also imagine there's a bit of other kinds of withdrawal, if that's the right word, because Dad gave him lots of sugar. I told him that was completely unacceptable, but I know he did it when I wasn't watching (crumb evidence plus he's a terrible liar). So Carbon's not only going through adjusting to less food less often, but a much different kind of food.

 

[SteffiS]

I deal with a similar thing with Ripple @Emily_Babbelhund . OH lets him eat all sorts of rubbish on his walks (or just doesn’t notice what he’s eating) consequently Ripple frequently has disgusting poos and is rather smelly .

Whenever OH is away I have to deal with Ripple’s expectation of what he is going to eat, and it is like an addiction. I firmly believe it’s self-perpetuating, the more of this stuff he eats, the worse his stomach is, the more he wants to eat rubbish.

My mantra with Ripple is 'rules is rules' - I try not to let him eat anything but kibble, and treat him with tiny cubes of cheese. It takes a few days of very strict walking and then he seems to settle down, although I know he would still love to be eating poo.

Generally both the boys behave differently over food with OH, they know he’ll continually treat them, whereas they mostly don’t even bother getting out of bed when I’m doing food (meanie mummy syndrome).

Sorry for the rambling but I think this will pass relatively quickly with Carbon, he will adjust to your rules once he 'comes down' from his sugar rush. If possible a few days of really strict rules and perhaps limiting where he walks (a pain for you I know) will help get things under control quicker.

 

[Candy]

I deal with a similar thing with Ripple @Emily_Babbelhund . OH lets him eat all sorts of rubbish on his walks (or just doesn’t notice what he’s eating) consequently Ripple frequently has disgusting poos and is rather smelly .

Whenever OH is away I have to deal with Ripple’s expectation of what he is going to eat, and it is like an addiction. I firmly believe it’s self-perpetuating, the more of this stuff he eats, the worse his stomach is, the more he wants to eat rubbish.

My mantra with Ripple is 'rules is rules' - I try not to let him eat anything but kibble, and treat him with tiny cubes of cheese. It takes a few days of very strict walking and then he seems to settle down, although I know he would still love to be eating poo.

Generally both the boys behave differently over food with OH, they know he’ll continually treat them, whereas they mostly don’t even bother getting out of bed when I’m doing food (meanie mummy syndrome).

Sorry for the rambling but I think this will pass relatively quickly with Carbon, he will adjust to your rules once he 'comes down' from his sugar rush. If possible a few days of really strict rules and perhaps limiting where he walks (a pain for you I know) will help get things under control quicker.

I am also 'Meanie Mother ', but Joy's used to it and because ( poor starved girl) I'm all she has most of the time, she doesn't tend to expect anything more from anyone else, which makes her appear to be a Veryvery GoodGirl! Sometimes it's easier doing it on your own....(Not during the tiny bitey puppy times though!)

 

[M.F.]

I have no advice, sorry. But just to say I sympathise and empathise. My sister remarked yesterday that Snowie is addicted and needs his rush. We were at a farmers market and Snowie did his usual deafening bark when the treats weren’t being dispensed fast enough. I have tried going cold turkey every now and then, but sometimes I just can’t bear the loud barks and give in, and then we are back to square 1. I think you’ll have better success with Carbon because he’s highly trained and he’s very clever, and he’ll soon learn what is and isn’t acceptable. Perhaps your trainer (the one online) has good advice?

 

[Atemas]

he will adjust to your rules once he 'comes down' from his sugar rush.

This is not good if he is pulling you so hard but I think @SteffiS is right - two months of inappropriate treats particularly sugar means he needs to get it out his system. I have no answers other than walking him when it’s quiet so he can’t do so much pulling towards anyone……but I know that’s probably not what you want to do……when I should imagine you want to be in amongst people.

I have the opposite here - F was a no treater until he saw how treats worked with Red. He now carries a little pot (12 pieces of kibble ) on his 3 mile walk. I give Red a spoonful of yogurt every morning and I know he thinks that’s spoiling but again he accepts as she is healthy.

I must add that Red still sees other people as treat sources (people would unasked give her treats when she was young . Off lead she will sometimes run up and sit by other people expecting a treat - I don‘t allow that

 

[SwampDonkey]

Also he's doing more exercise now so he might actually be hungry.

 

[Emily_Babbelhund]

consequently Ripple frequently has disgusting poos and is rather smelly .

Carbon's poos were fine throughout California but his fur smelled funny and was so oily. Dad kept saying how I needed to bathe him, but I never bathe him and he smells lovely (normally). OK, in Cornwall he's going into the sea nearly every day so of course he's going to smell good, but this summer in Regensburg he wasn't in the water once and was his usual delightful self. So yeah, the diet thing makes a big difference though I couldn't convince my Dad that he was the one making Carbon stink.

I think this will pass relatively quickly with Carbon, he will adjust to your rules once he 'comes down' from his sugar rush. If possible a few days of really strict rules and perhaps limiting where he walks (a pain for you I know) will help get things under control quicker.

Yes, I hope you're right about this. He's just such a menace now. Unfortunately limiting where he walks is not something I want to do as I've come to Italy to tourist and hiding out all day in my dingy Airbnb Grandma apartment is not going to happen. But I realise that's my choice so I pay the consequences. Florence in general is more challenging than Venice will be due to the shear amount of people and lack of nearby greenspace. It may be that I just hold on by the skin of my teeth here for another week, and work (and hope) towards more progress once we land in a calmer environment next weekend.

 

[Emily_Babbelhund]

We were at a farmers market and Snowie did his usual deafening bark when the treats weren’t being dispensed fast enough.

Well ok, at least Carbon doesn't bark for treats!

Maybe from his time in the clink (doggie prison) but he's more about finding someone else to give him something or finding something on the ground if I don't respond fast enough. Very self-sufficient!

Perhaps your trainer (the one online) has good advice?

Yes, I've already decided that we'll be doing a general refresher course with her once we're in Cornwall. For private sessions, you have to start at the beginning of the month, so we're on our own until then.

 

[Emily_Babbelhund]

I have no answers other than walking him when it’s quiet so he can’t do so much pulling towards anyone……but I know that’s probably not what you want to do……when I should imagine you want to be in amongst people.

So far it's never quiet in Florence!

I don't actually want to be around so many people, but that's this city - always crowded. Actually it used to be quite calm after 8pm when all the bus tours left, but even that ship has sailed apparently as everyone in the world is making up for last travel time during COVID. Heck, I am one of them, so I can't really complain, can I?

There are also tons of dogs in amongst the tons of people - @Selina27 or @kateincornwall imagine Padstow port on a sunny Saturday afternoon but in a large city centre! So I've really thrown poor Carbon into the deep end. I'm really wishing we would have just come here for 3-4 days and then quickly on to Venice, but here we are, live and learn.

 

[Emily_Babbelhund]

Also he's doing more exercise now so he might actually be hungry.

Did Carbon pay you to say that?

I've upped his normal meal size and added a mid-day snack to help rule this out. He's also getting kibble on walks. So I don't think physical hunger is the issue. But as a food addict myself, I understand the pull of food has much less to do with physical hunger than the mental thing. Even if he isn't really hungry doesn't mean he's not feeling hungry.

 

[Selina27]

aagh @Emily_Babbelhund I feel your pain!

It's totally infuriating when other people insist on feeding your dog despite your asking them not too. And yes the sugar thing, I get that too, and agree it can look like an addiction. I have thought that about Cass, most times I can distract from stuff on the ground but other times there is no way and it really does look like an addiction. I actually find the worst things are cheap treats that the average pet shop sells -- her eyes become completely glazed and if anyone is proferring those I know she doesn't hear me. She never bothers me for treats on a walk - she has to earn them -- but some people insist on doing so and I find it so maddening.

I have re-aquainted myself with the kikopup videos for leaving things on the ground and wish I'd worked harder when she was a puppy - but in my defence it wasn't such a problem then .

What I find is that it helps to go out and accept that part of out time out will be doing this training -- that way we are at least working together!

@SwampDonkey may have a point about being hungry -- there are times when Cass genuinely is I'm sure , after a particularly energetic walk and also to I am noticing after scentwork class. But also, after eating a lot of more unhealthy sugary foods we can feel less satisfied -- maybe it is the same for them?

 

[SteffiS]

What I find is that it helps to go out and accept that part of out time out will be doing this training -- that way we are at least working together!

That is something else I do with both the boys, especially morning walks, lots of training. When I have Ripple he seems to really enjoy this, he’s a very bright boy and remembers all sorts of random, and probably silly things, I did with him as a puppy. He’s actually more responsive to this than Toffee, and I find it an excellent way of distracting him.

 

[SteffiS]

So yeah, the diet thing makes a big difference though I couldn't convince my Dad that he was the one making Carbon stink.

I get really cross with OH about this, he just doesn’t seem to accept that Ripple eating all that rubbish on his walks is causing problems. When OH is away I can get Ripple in a routine where he has proper solid poos usually twice a day, when I’m not walking him his poos are a wet mess of . He frequently asks to go out in the evening and again overnight, I refuse to clear up after him in the hope that one day OH will realise.

 

[Emily_Babbelhund]

I get really cross with OH about this, he just doesn’t seem to accept that Ripple eating all that rubbish on his walks is causing problems. When OH is away I can get Ripple in a routine where he has proper solid poos usually twice a day, when I’m not walking him his poos are a wet mess of . He frequently asks to go out in the evening and again overnight, I refuse to clear up after him in the hope that one day OH will realise.

My dad may not have accepted that he was making Carbon stink, but the last couple weeks he realised what a monster he'd created otherwise. Carbon would go upstairs with my dad to his man-cave and beg for food, actually taking his paw and whacking at my dad until he responded. It started to drive my dad nuts and he'd lock Carbon out of the room and throw treats at me to distract Carbon before he went upstairs so he could close the door before Carbon followed him.

I wouldn't give Carbon the treats tossed at me (I didn't appreciate that method), but it still distracted him long enough for my father to make an exit.

My father also learned the drawback of Carbon putting his head on my dad's lap under the table at restaurants because he had fed Carbon so much that way. Not nice to get up with a wet patch in your crotch from dog drool and have to walk through a restaurant like that.

Anyway, there's a lot of recovering to do for both of us after the last two months. We both need to put the training in!

Speaking of which, today went better, mainly because I was on him like a hawk. We treated the whole three hours in Lucca as a training exercise - training, break, training, break. Some wins and some "oops" but more wins and than "oops". This is just going to a lot of time to reverse unfortunately.

Any tips or shared experiences still very welcome here.

 

[Atemas]

Not nice to get up with a wet patch in your crotch from dog drool and have to walk through a restaurant like that.

 

[Emily_Babbelhund]

I am bad, but I too felt this result was rather hilarious.