Maxx's heebie jeebies with slippery surfaces

[Lab_adore]

Maxx is very smart - too smart sometimes. But then he can also be a bit....'unthinking'. He gets the heebie jeebies with slippery surfaces and once he slips a bit he won't go onto that surface again without lots of very gentle encouragement. We had to put a no-slip mat at the top of the indoor stairs where the carpeted stairs turn into floorboards. He didn't once come up to the pool this summer as he slipped up the three stairs from the first deck to the pool deck a couple of times.

He loves going up to the first deck that overlooks our kitchen. He can see straight into the house and there are lots of garden beds etc to sniff. Yesterday he slipped down the stairs and now refuses to use them. So about 35 times today he trotted UP the stairs to roam the deck and 'help' Steve who is building some sliding doors in the cupboard space under the deck (this means nicking bits of wood/tools/other material or giving Steve kisses or bringing him presents from the garden) - only to find he couldn't get down. The pitiful crying and barking ensues and one of us has to put on his collar and lead and help him back down the stairs

Any thoughts on how we can help him be less fearful?

 

[Atemas]

Lure him with a bit of tasty food?

 

[Oberon]

Obi developed a similar issue that started out with a floating timber wharf moving when a boat went past and extended to bridges of all kinds and then timber decks. He‘s ok with foot bridges now after we spent a bit of time encouraging him (with food) over the smallest/shortest/lowest concrete (therefore sturdy and not see through) pedestrian bridge we could find.

Decks are a case by case basis, because we haven’t had many to practice on, but we’ve been able to get him comfy with decks we’ve had to traverse, using food. It’s taken time on each occasion though. We’ve used kibble, which he likes but wouldn’t sell his soul for, to make sure the pressure to do something he hates isn’t too much. Basically it’s involved laying a trail of kibble on the deck. Each time he acts like the deck is going to collapse under him, at first. If that’s what he thinks will happen I can see how scary it must be. I wouldn’t walk on a deck that I thought was going to move, either. Eventually he gets enough evidence that it’s safe, and then he is ok.

So I don’t know if there’s a smaller scale, easier version of your steps you can coach him on... Or else put mats or something on the stairs to make them look and feel different till he ok again?

 

[HAH]

It sounds like this isn't an urgent problem in that you might be able to take some time in working on this with Maxx - so I'd probably avoid luring, to make it as comfortable and sustainable for him as possible.
Firstly, is it actually slippery? Given that Mr Maxx has slipped on it, it sounds like it might be - so I'd look at improving traction. If it's decking, can you give it a light paint with a sand/grit coating to help his paws? Or stick down some anti-slip material?

Another thought I had was maybe working on some balance/stability games, like two up, front and back paws, walking on low walls, or along tree trunks - all stuff to build core stability and strength, and to help regain a bit of physical confidence. Kipper used to be so flighty if he slipped a foot from something, or stumbled - but that's reduced in the last couple of years, and I think that's partly weight loss for him (just makes getting around easier, poor fella) but also he's improved a lot in his balance and strength which mostly helps him recover without wiping out.

I'd also be looking at improving Maxx's associations with that space. As Rachel says, I'd be wary of any place I'd had a fall before (and actually I am - there's a couple of muddy slopes on dog walks I've slipped down in the past where I'm always extra-cautious, regardless of the 'actual' risk of slipping). Maybe some small scatters nearby repeated often, grooming or another activity he loves (like a zen bowl) in that area. Then you can progress closer to the steps, eventually onto the steps - but keeping it all low threshold, low pressure with the aim to do little reps and stop before it gets uncomfy.
It might take a while, but if Maxx can go at his pace then hopefully it'll feel like him deciding it's okay again, rather than going against his better judgement because there's cheez All this might be overkill of course, just mullings!

 

[M.F.]

Do you think he’s in pain when he slips? That little slip might be pinching a nerve. He might be trying to avoid pain.

The reason I ask is based on our experience. Snowie started putting one paw onto the first step (painted wood), hesitating, and then taking his paw off. The only way to get him up the stairs to bed was too lure him with butter. We eventually realised it was probably his sore back. I have no idea why it took us so long to get non-slip covers for the first two steps and the last two steps!! But once we put those down, no more hesitation! So, perhaps you can try some non-slip covering? We bought pretty yellow-cream rubber that is designed to go under rugs. It goes reasonably well with the colour of our stair paint!

 

[Lab_adore]

It is very slippery for sure so that doesn't help - especially now that it is colder and it gets dew on it overnight. I'll definitely try to slowly make him more comfy. I was using way too nice a treat and that was making him more anxious. Kibble is a good idea because, as you said Rachael he likes it but won't sell his soul for it. Or maybe bits of carrot.

We put a no-slip mat on the top step yesterday but he still wouldn't step on it. This morning he was up there waiting for his walk when I started putting treats into the treat bags we take and he skidded down in his haste to get back to the kitchen. Bad move on my part.

I don't think he is in pain @M.F. as he is bouncing around as normal otherwise. I did feel all over his legs and back and he didn't bat an eyelid. I hope not anyway

Thanks for your - as always - amazing advice

 

[Lab_adore]

We had some success today. There are two sets of steps - one steep and more narrow and the other each step is very wide and long. But he is scared of both as they have the same decking material. So I focussed on the wide ones and gently encouraged him with bits of kibble until he put one paw down, then a second paw and (after a long time) his back paws onto the first step. From there he seemed ok and trotted down on his own.

Steve is going to get some no-slip material to stick on next time he goes to the hardware store

@HAH - I spent ages trying to teach Maxx to put two paws onto things but it was the one thing he just wouldn't do. I gave up!

 

[snowbunny]

Some great suggestions from @HAH. Willow has slipped a few times on the hallway stairs in the apartment block in Andorra, which are a polished marble/granite type stone. Obviously we can't alter them because they're not our property, and couldn't put any mats on them because they are cleaned daily. The slipping made her panic, so she'd rush down and try to gain traction with her claws, which obviously made her more likely to slip. It was a bit of a vicious circle but a couple of things worked. Firstly was keeping her claws short so that she got more traction with her pads. If the claws are long, there will be less traction. And then taking her up and down the stairs on lead slowly and thoughtfully. Rushing is no good because it's more likely to create panic and luring isn't necessarily the best for this part of it, because the point is to have the dog concentrate on their movements, not on a piece of food. The more times you can have them repeating the good and successful movement patterns (ie slow and steady) the more they'll work out that that is the key to it. Now she can be off leash and it can be wet from melted snow and she slows herself down to move in a considered fashion all by herself.

Obviously, working on the fearfulness supersedes that and if you can make them non-slip then that's even better. But if you needed to work through it somewhere that non-slip wasn't possible in the long term, it's really helpful to get them to realise that their own actions can set them up for success.

 

[Oberon]

I’m also reminded that Obi has also been hesitant with steps that have gaps, like timber steps, and getting him to walk slowly at heel down or up them (actually up is worse) has worked at times - depends on the scariness of the steps though. We have had to carry him many times. He’s quite happy to be carried. We do a start button type of thing where we bend over with arms positioned as if to pick up a beach ball, and we say “lift”. He gets ready to be lifted if he’s ok to be lifted. When we lift him he does a push off the ground with his feet which is quite funny.

The slow, controlled walk (basically a slow heel) has worked with my young horse who slipped and skidded down the front offloading ramp of the horse float a few months ago. He was a bit hesitant the time after that. I really really did not want him to learn to rush off the float, which would‘ve been the next issue... So I taught him to do a slow walk down slopes (starting with the gravel road, very grippy, then moving to grass, less grippy). I walk slowly with short steps beside him and has to step his front feet in time with, or at the same speed and length as, my footsteps. We tried this down the float ramp on Sunday and it worked well.

 

[Oberon]

Not suggesting you carry Maxx....Obi is a bit smaller!

 

[Lab_adore]

Not suggesting you carry Maxx....Obi is a bit smaller!

I have no hope and Steve still has a bung left arm where Maxx pulled on the lead and his bicep tore. Sigh

 

[Oberon]

Yeah.....Maxx will need to rely on his own legs....

I worked out I could carry Obi when I got locked in a multi-story car park stairwell with open metal steps that Obi was no way no how going anywhere near under his own steam.... The only way was up

 

[Natalie]

I'm late replying here but have lived with this with Monty for as long as I can remember. We manage this well around the house, as have ensured all the hotspots (normally by doorways with laminate flooring ) are covered with random rugs.
We know he won't walk over a bridge with a gap, or open stairways, or anything like Rachel described, so we work around that. He also doesn't like anything wobbly - so hates ramps or anything with some 'give' in it. He occasionally maroons himself on sofas and beds - really not sure why but he barks to let us know, then we walk in and go 'off you come Monty' and he jumps off. Very occasionally we will have to give him a hand.

His nemesis in the past few years have been the outside steps. Our decking gets very slippy in the winter, he can cope with that but the three small steps up onto the lawn have always been an issue, especially as they got old and worn. Much of the winter I have been outside morning and night helping him up and down them. I try very hard not to lure, but occasionally scatter some kibble at the bottom of the steps. However, some days, all I had to do was wave to him or call him from the kitchen to get him to come back down.
OH thankfully replaced the steps in March, but it has taken him until very recently to trust that they are strong and sturdy - for the first four weeks he woofed at them top and bottom and had to be coaxed up. So certainly, as @HAH mentions, associations can be strong and long lasting.

And magically, he can move anywhere at some speed if he thinks Bear is getting a single piece of kibble more than him. As I think @snowbunny mentioned on another thread, the ability to do something that is exciting or eat something tasty isn't a great indicator of any discomfort, as instinct just takes over. Once he jumped up the steps outside, just because Bear was being fed on the lawn. He would have hated to do this as he never jumps if he can avoid it, but did it anyway, because he couldn't Bear to miss out

 

[Lab_adore]

Thanks for this Natalie, it sounds very much like where Maxx is heading. Some days he gets the wobbles and some days he happily trots up and down the steps and other days even the loungeroom floor scares him. I'm avoiding luring unless it is urgent as clever clogs will soon work out that this is an easy new way to get some food. I really don't think there is anything physically wrong with him as he is showing no signs whatsoever.

 

[Natalie]

I realise my post wasn't especially useful in advice , just relaying our situation. But maybe that's for the best as Monty has a whole heap of health issues which Maxx doesn't have.
I'd just work on eliminating or reducing all the difficult areas for now.
But also, in the context of stuff, this affects only 1% of Monty's mostly happy little life, so don't stress about it too much if it's only odd moments , and you just have to give Maxx a helping hand down the steps for a while, it might well pass in time.

 

[Lab_adore]

Update!

We spent an eye-watering amount of money on non-stick special tape and it has done the trick! It took time and patience, but Maxx now trots up and down the steps of the various decks without batting an eyelash.

This is what they look like. Poor perfectionist Steve (especially when it comes to aesthetics) is appalled by the look but he knows it is 1 million times more important for Maxx to be safe and happy

 

[HAH]

Brilliant job @Lab_adore , and well done Steve for staying strong. So pleased Maxx is a lot happier

 

[Jacqui-S]

That doesn't look like "much" to solve Maxx's issue @Lab_adore .
Does it actually make that much difference or is there a psychological element here too, not that I quite know if you can "trick" dogs so easily.

 

[Cath]

Great job Steve

 

[Lab_adore]

That doesn't look like "much" to solve Maxx's issue @Lab_adore .
Does it actually make that much difference or is there a psychological element here too, not that I quite know if you can "trick" dogs so easily.

I've pondered this myself. It is really sticky so he must feel it in his paws or perhaps he just hasn't slipped now for so long he has gained confidence? Just having it at the front of the steps seems to work perfectly. It's actually even great for clumsy humans as it can be really slippery in winter with the dew and I have slipped myself at times; but with this tape you really feel steady. It's hard to explain