Stop whistle

[Selina27]

I am working on stop whistle before next months gundog training and would really appreciate some help on building up the distance! I know some of you use the target stick and/place mat to send the dog away to and would like to learn to do this with Cassie. I can stop her when she's walking away from me, and am practicing daily but need to have a more structured approach so I can start taking it to more challenging areas. I also use tug games for this a bit, but that's more hit and miss, as I have to pick times when Cassie is in the mood to play tug.
Various things were demonstrated in the class but it's all rather muddled in my fuzzy brain! Thank you!

 

[snowbunny]

Do you have a "send to place board" or target stick behaviour at all?

 

[Beanwood]

Which technique are you using for the stop whistle training? I started using the target post like this:

1. Post in the ground around 8foot away from me. Let the dog just mooch around, not asking anything, no cues. When the dog starts looking at me we are ready!
2. I have my whistle in my mouth, right arm raised holding a large treat (for visibility)
3. Back to step one..when dog pauses and looks at me...blow whistle. click...throw treat. (slightly behind dog to prevent creeping forward..) Dog takes treat. At this stage, I am just pairing the "pause, look at me" with the stop whistle and capturing that behaviour. Rinse and repeat. After a bit, you will notice Cassie stopping on whistle.

To get distance, you can move on to using target sticks more actively. Place board training helps here. I must admit to getting muddled with cues, so I worked on just the target stick and "target" cue, dropping the placeboard at this point. So back to basics and luring to the target stick, then add a cue such as "target". I send my dogs from a neat heel as if I was sending out for a memory retrieve. I guess its a habit I have gotten into, it also sets them up nicely.

Once they have the target cue on board, I vary the environments I use, initially garden, driveway, fields. Always keeping the distance short and making the game fun! Then I add the stop whistle. So I am now using 2 cues. "Target" means go to target post, and the "stop" whistle I use when they reach the target stick.

Tools I use....target stick, clicker and a toy such as the clam, which I fill with high value treats, so I can chuck a bit of distance. It then looked a bit like this:

Target stick at 10 yards
Dog in a heel by my side.
Cue "target"
Click for getting to target and throw treat!
Blow "stop" whistle
click for remaining in place - throw clam toy!

The next stage I removed the click for getting to target....and used "stop" whistle when they arrived at the target post.

I am sure there are better ways, but this worked for me. I think there are some videos that are quite good by Leanne Smith, will try and dig them out for you

 

[Selina27]

Do you have a "send to place board" or target stick behaviour at all?

No. Well, only "go to bed" . She would probably "go to mat" she learnt that quite young but I don't use it.

 

[Selina27]

Which technique are you using for the stop whistle training?

Well this is it you see, as usual, it's all a bit fuzzy. We first did "stop" at a training class (not HP) more as emergency stop when running towards us by using hand signal, and I paired it up with a whistle. Which she now understands means stop and look at me, and in low distraction environment this works well.

To get distance, you can move on to using target sticks more actively.

So given that she has made that pairing, I think I could start here. I was a bit confused as to how to send her out to the stick, but "target" would be good.
So is the idea that if she mooches near the target stick I blow stop whistle? Click and reward?

 

[snowbunny]

OK, well that would be your first port of call. You need to be able to get her moving away from you to be able to stop her at a distance. There are lots of ways to do this. The book by Anne Bussey is very clear at how to do this, and it's only £3.99 on Kindle https://www.amazon.co.uk/Teach-your...F8&qid=1547128844&sr=8-2&keywords=anne+bussey

 

[Stacia]

I do it completely differently and I think, simpler. I feel with target sticks and mats it does muddy the waters a little but will get there in the end.

Rourke (and though 'I says it and shouldn't') does have a good stop whistle and at a good distance as well and he spins round to face me. I taught it as he was coming towards me, I put my arm in the air with the tennis ball in my hand and as he looked up at it, I blew the whistle and said sit which he did without thinking at that stage and threw the tennis ball over his head. By throwing over their heads this stops their desire to keep coming towards you. The reward for sitting is the tennis ball. They soon learn to sit quickly. You can also do it the house with kibble. The stop whistle should mean 'stop and look at me, I am going to tell you what to do' which helps them. To some people, the stop whistle is used as a punishment, not an encouragement.

 

[snowbunny]

I actually taught the stop whistle almost the same as @Jelinga with W&S - although I just blew the whistle which made them turn and then put the ball in the air, rather than waiting until they were already looking at or moving towards me. It's a really good method for a dog who likes a ball. I still do this on walks to keep the stop topped up in a real environment. Didn't work with Squidge, because she wasn't interested! I used food in my hand with her, but it was hard to get the distance.

The target/placeboard isn't so important for getting the stop behaviour itself, but you do need to be able to send your dog away for gundog work, and those props help with that. Once you have your cue for sending back, you can more easily set up your sessions so that you are stopping the dog at the distance and with the distractions you want, rather than having to wait for them to get to that distance more organically.

Having the ability to send your dog away means you can start stopping them as they run out, which is when you're going to be doing it "for real" anyway.

 

[Stacia]

Not sure @snowbunny that you should stop your dog as they run out, as that gets them to run so far and then look back or even to spin. I have taught my dog to 'go to a mat' and lie down as in 'obedience classes' (which I don't go to any more) but not in a gun dog situation on the whole.

 

[Selina27]

The stop whistle should mean 'stop and look at me, I am going to tell you what to do' which helps them.

Once you have your cue for sending back, you can more easily set up your sessions so that you are stopping the dog at the distance and with the distractions you want, rather than having to wait for them to get to that distance more organically.

Yes, that's exactly what I need to do. She already gets that it means stop and look at me, but it's all a bit vague at the moment. I'm also working on pairing it when she momentarily pauses and looks to me of her own accord.

 

[Selina27]

that gets them to run so far and then look back or even to spin.

Why is this a problem?

 

[snowbunny]

Not sure @snowbunny that you should stop your dog as they run out, as that gets them to run so far and then look back or even to spin.

Not if you teach the dog that you normally don't stop him. But, in general, aren't you going to be stopping your dog on an outrun in the field? Not on the way back to you?

Why is this a problem?

You don't want your dog to become "sticky" - so they lose confidence in running out away from you. If they think they're always going to be stopped, they will stop at that distance where you normally stop them, in anticipation. That's why you have to ensure you let them run to the dummy, target, or whatever you're using, more than you stop them.

 

[Stacia]

Wot @snowbunny said

 

[Selina27]

Ok, so this is where I'm at.

I can use my stop whistle to stop her going away from me and coming to me, in low distraction environment, without hand signal. I am pairing up the stop whistle with when she voluntarily looks to me when about to hunt or during hunt with I would say increasing success, but do also use hand signal still with this. (I am supposed to be fading this out).

I have read Anne Busseys ebook (thanks @snowbunny ), I have an electric fence post for a target. Cassie is used to waiting to eat her food, any food I put in a dish on the ground I am confident she will wait for "go ahead" cue.

What don't have is a sendaway cue, and I'm muddled how to start.

Shall I ….

1) Let her mooch in the garden and blow stop whistle once she's by the post, she's sure to go over out of curiousity. Then reward with clam.
0r
2) Put food in a dish and cue her to go there "go ahead". In which case at what point do I blow stop whistle?

Getting myself in a bit of a muddle so all suggestions gratefully received

 

[snowbunny]

I think you need to separate the two things. You need to work on your sendaway, and you need to work on your stop whistle. Don't combine them until they are both individually strong.

If you follow the steps in the book, it will get you there.

The thing about fading the hand is something that seems to go in and out of fashion! I think when you're working at distance, the hand up can help your dog more easily orient to you. But it's no bad thing to be able to stop the dog just on the whistle, either.

 

[Stacia]

I agree with @snowbunny, I wouldn't teach the send away as part of training the stop whistle. If you were doing gundog work, it wouldn't be sensible to stop the dog on the way out as you could then get a dog, which when sent for a retrieve, keeps looking back or slowing down, anticipating that you might blow the whistle. I teach it as a rewarding thing to do, stop, look at me and I will tell you which way to go. I would keep the hand signal in (though of course teach it without as well, useful) as again if working or just having fun with the dog, you might be stopping them at a distance and they can they see your hand and arm. Just dashing out, so not really the time to write as fully as I would like.

 

[Stacia]

@Selina27, back home now and answering your last question. Not sure I have this right, is the food in the dish at the pole or just out there? I did food in the dish and sent Rourke and stopped him where I think I would have success, so to begin with, perhaps just a foot away from me and gradually lengthen the distance as you get success.

 

[snowbunny]

If you have a remote feeder, they are great for stop whistle training.

 

[Selina27]

back home now and answering your last question. Not sure I have this right, is the food in the dish at the pole or just out there? I did food in the dish and sent Rourke and stopped him where I think I would have success, so to begin with, perhaps just a foot away from me and gradually lengthen the distance as you get success.

Have started this in the garden today, 2 sending her to the post with rewards to eat, once blew stop whistle -- instant sit and look at me good girl! Is it better to reward where she has stopped or release her to the rewards by the post? I then finished by letting her go to the pole for rewards, does this sound about right?

If you have a remote feeder, they are great for stop whistle training.

Yes, HP said this. I don't, I'm using clam where I can.

 

[Stacia]

I would reward the sit the moment she sat wherever that was, so she sits and then you send her for reward wherever that is.