Teaching a stand

[snowbunny]

Weirdly, I’ve never taught my lot to stand on cue. It’s just not something I’ve ever needed. Squidge has a “stand still” stacking cue from conformation but she has no sit-to-stand.
I’m taking a cooperative care class that starts on 1st October and thought that a stand would be useful for that, so I’ve just started shaping it today. I figure if you’re going to do it, you might as well do it right, so I’m aiming to train a nice kick-back stand so it looks pretty too

 

[HAH]

And what is kick back please? I only know it in a bribery sense

 

[snowbunny]

A kick-back stand is where the front feet stay in place and the back feet step out into the stand position (from a sit).

 

[HAH]

Oh that’s cool! Where would you even start with that? I’m going to watch this thread closely

 

[Boogie]

All my pups could stand nicely from a sit. Spencer is really good at it.

You lure at first, pulling your hand away - straight - from the dog’s nose. They naturally stand. Then be sure you keep your hand still and let them lick the treat before you give it, saying ‘stand’ as they lick. That way they don’t sit down again and they learn the position you are asking for.

 

[snowbunny]

I don't want to lure. Firstly because I'm trying to improve my shaping and secondly because I'm after the kick-back stand and luring tends to give you a step forward stand. My target is the front remaining very still, so you can see how luring isn't compatible with that. I could lure and then "fix" the step forward, but that's asking for a different mechanical movement pattern, and so would introduce confusion.

I'm going about it by C&Ting repeatedly for standing in front of me, capturing stillness and extending the duration. After a few sessions of this, I'm going to pause enough for the dog to offer a sit (which they will, as this is their default behaviour), but then wait it out. If I've paid enough into the stand, they will offer that again and I can continue C&Ting. After a while, I'll be able to cue a sit, then release and the dog will stand for reinforcement. At this point, I can start introducing my verbal cue.

 

[MellowYellow]

I'm doing a stand from sit, with front feet on a wobble cushion, with Merlin, as part of his physiotherapy. I mostly trained it with a lure, as Mags describes, but he does it without a lure now and without moving his front feet, all the power coming from the hindquarters, which is what I was aiming for.

 

[Emily]

I've trained both a "step forward" and "kick back" stand from a sit. The "kick back" lure works if you move the lure downwards towards their chest, so the bum pops up. I think front paws on a target is easier though. The "step forward" stand works well with a hand touch.

 

[snowbunny]

I've seen the front foot target method, and it looks to work fine, especially when you use it with the downwards lure that @Emily describes. If you pull the lure forwards, it seems to me you'd start off with the dog leaning forward to get the treat. I appreciate that that part of the behaviour fades as the dog understands what we're after, but I'm using this exercise to try to train myself to think a little more cleanly and get a behaviour I want without introducing "noise" that needs to be faded later. I might still use a front foot target to really get those front feet stable, but I don't want the first muscular effort in the learning stages to be movement forwards, even if that's only the nose. It's an exercise in precision for my own training.

 

[Charlie]

I did the same as @Boogie With Charlie I lured from a sit with a treat to to his nose moving it away and added "stand", he is now great with just a cue. Hattie I just cue "stand" and she does, barely any training needed x

 

[Emily]

I've seen the front foot target method, and it looks to work fine, especially when you use it with the downwards lure that @Emily describes. If you pull the lure forwards, it seems to me you'd start off with the dog leaning forward to get the treat. I appreciate that that part of the behaviour fades as the dog understands what we're after, but I'm using this exercise to try to train myself to think a little more cleanly and get a behaviour I want without introducing "noise" that needs to be faded later. I might still use a front foot target to really get those front feet stable, but I don't want the first muscular effort in the learning stages to be movement forwards, even if that's only the nose. It's an exercise in precision for my own training.

I did it a bit of a backwards way, which might make a difference. Ella already had a pretty solid "stand" cue for our obedience stuff (from a walk, drop and sit) but when standing from the sit or drop, it was more of a "step forward". When I wanted to train the "kick back" I tried luring but found the front foot target easier. The difference is, Ella already had the "stand" on verbal and visual cue so we were already half way there.

 

[snowbunny]

The difference is, Ella already had the "stand" on verbal and visual cue so we were already half way there.

Yes, I see a big difference between Squidge and the other two, because she already understands about standing still, her feet are so much more planted. Still, we've only had one session so far, so I might throw all my grand ideas out of the window yet

 

[Emily]

so I might throw all my grand ideas out of the window yet

At least you have grand ideas!

 

[Emily_Babbelhund]

Weirdly, I’ve never taught my lot to stand on cue. It’s just not something I’ve ever needed.

Two big uses of stand for me with Brogan: (1) as the basis for 'brace' as part of his service dog tasks and (2) photography! I didn't realise how much I used it for photos until I started taking pics of Carbon, who I've not taught stand to yet. Unless I catch him unawares, his default when he sees the camera is to sit and wait. We definitely need a stand and wait or every photo is going to be him with his lopsided sit.

Strangely stand is one of those things that I had no problem teaching to a puppy but seem to have a harder time with adult dogs. Any idea why that would be?