Bear's Teenage Training Log

[Natalie]

Moving to the teenage section as he will be one very soon

I had our first Zoom training class online yesterday. It went quite well, and Bear, of course was a little angel and didn't show any of the behaviours I'd been complaining about . These are my takeaways:

- Stop holding treats in my hand, or have my hand anywhere near my treat bag. (I think this is a throwback to doing a lot of clicker work with Monty, and needing to give the treat within a few seconds of marking.)

- Settle - we worked on this for about half an hour, with Bear tethered to the sofa so he was out of my reach, and with my back to him while I was talking to my trainer, just getting the odd treat. He did exceptionally well on this, so I am now going to build in the distractions which lead to him jumping up and mouthing, such as door knocking, high pitched voices, and ultimately, someone coming into the house.

- We unpicked some of the reasons for his over-the-top excitement, and I fear the ball and frisbee may be at fault here. In just a short time, we've turned this into a bit of an obsession - so he now thinks that every walk, and indeed, every play session, is going to be as exciting as ball chasing. It became clear on the walk I've just had with him, which was meant to be a decompression / sniffy walk - he just doesn't relax when we go outside, and within minutes he's a huffing, pulling stressy dog even when he hasn't had any exertion. I did manage to do a bit of loose lead walking in the last fifteen minutes with him, and bring him down a bit. I'm going to have to break it to my dog walker that the balls are going to have to go, at least temporarily.

At the next session, we are going to have a chat about headcollars, and see if we can minimise the aversion if at all possible.


As well as the settle, I am starting to use the raised beds every day to practice both dogs being calm - while I was tidying the kitchen today, every 30 seconds I was treating for staying there, and every minute or so I would call one of them up for some simple work - touch, sit, lie, etc. Still a long way to go but already Bear has remembered the 'bed' cue and can manage about a minute on there without moving off.


I probably need to build in a few more very short sessions throughout the day - when I'm making a cup of tea for example - so that he gets mini training bursts more frequently. I'm really bad for training the same thing a few times a day to try and improve on it quickly, so I think I need to have some more diverse activities in there too.

I did feel better after the training session - she said it was clear that I had already done a lot with Bear, she could see that from the hour and a half we had on Zoom, and not to feel guilty about not doing lots and lots with them - and it's fine just to allow them to be dogs and do their own thing. And above all, I need to not set myself up to fail - I'm inclined to promise myself the world, underdeliver then get despondent, feel a failure and quit with some aspects of dog training.
So small steps for me as well as Bear.

I'd really welcome and comments or tips from any of you.

 

[Stacia]

@Natalie, it sounded very promising. One trainer I trained with advocated 'kettle training' every time you boil the kettle, do five minutes training. Definitely give up the ball chasing, not good for their joints anyway. You can always hide the ball in long grass and send Bear to search for it, that can be very tiring!

 

[Natalie]

ou can always hide the ball in long grass and send Bear to search for it, that can be very tiring!

I've been trying this for ages, but he just has no interest in anything that's not moving, in fact, that's how the ball chasing evolved - I thought if he would bring things back that were moving - and he always brings the ball or frisbee back - I could evolve this into finding a hidden / not moving object, but it's had completely the opposite effect. I can't even get him to pick something up in the house yet.

 

[JES72]

Homer was very ball obsessed and got over excited. Hubby went cold turkey on him and refuses to take a ball out on Homer's walk. Hubby only walks him along the river so that he can watch any rowing going on so Homer has to make is own entertainment by sniffing. I do take a ball but he only gets it once we cross the second bridge onto the common which is about 3/4 mile from the house. It took a while for him to stop mugging me but we got there. But this definitely helped him calm down on his walks.

 

[Natalie]

It's a completely new thing to me, as Monty has never really been that interested in toys on a walk. And it's also become a useful recall tool, and enabled him to be off lead in places where other people and dogs are - because he was so interested in the ball he would ignore everything else.

 

[Candy]

I read an article online around a year ago about how constant ball throwing on walks is bad for dogs' mental wellbeing. It said dogs who obsessively chase balls get a huge adrenaline rush when doing so and that constant raised levels of adrenaline cause anxiety and prevent the dog from doing more relaxing and enriching things like having a good sniff. I can't remember who wrote it but it made a lot of sense to me. Now when Joy and I go for our walks I will let her have about ten minutes of ball chasing, then change the game into 'Find it!' for about another ten minutes, then the ball gets put away and we walk, which means she'll then do some sniffing, play with other dogs etc. This feels better and more balanced to me than constant ball throwing.

 

[Ashley]

I’ve spent so much time dealing with Quinn’s ball obsession over the years, and it really takes time and getting to know him. Ball throwers are still a huge challenge so the second I see someone with one in hand, I have to recall her and she gets her own ball to carry on leash. We have specific walks and certain points on others where she gets throws. And “go” means get walking, you aren’t getting it when offleash. The ball is such a good reward that her recall and training was fairly easy though - I do tons of restrained retrieves and other ball related training stuff almost daily. I tried taking the ball away fully for a few months and it made her more obsessive when she would see another dog with one. I also feel it’s part of her happiness - they are meant to retrieve after all. She has to stay in a down while I throw the ball and then gets released, or I walk across the field and recall and she catches the ball as she runs to me, we do searches in tall grasses, ball in low trees, hidden on playgrounds, find the ball in the house. You can build those games up over time. It will come together!

 

[Natalie]

It said dogs who obsessively chase balls get a huge adrenaline rush when doing so and that constant raised levels of adrenaline cause anxiety and prevent the dog from doing more relaxing and enriching things like having a good sniff.

Yes, we think this might be what is happening with Bear and causing him to get over-excited in the house, especially the mouthing. He is very happy to do other relaxing games in the house, like trick training, and simple scent work - but even then he races around at a hundred miles an hour trying to find the fish

 

[Charlie]

Sounds very positive Natalie and Bear. I don't have ball obsessed dogs but I have seen it and I find it quite distressing to watch. I only throw a ball for Charlie in the Loch and never on grass as I want to protect his joints. Too much sudden stopping to fetch balls is bad for them. Hate ball chuckers, again I only use this for distance in water never on land. Could you do some controlled dummy retrieving with Bear? Charlie loves this and is mentally better for him. xx

 

[kateincornwall]

Must admit that I got Reuben hooked on balls due to his habit of legging it to hunt . It worked a treat but now it is limited, mainly using it in retrieving in the rough or the river . The ball is never ever played with at home , it is precious and a treat for him only and not on every walk , keeps him on his toes ! Bear is only very young , it sounds like he is doing well x

 

[Selina27]

@Natalie and Bear, it sounds like you have both done really well, an hour and a half sounds like a long time to me .

treating for staying there,

I used to do this with Cassie quite a lot at this age, it worked well. I still do it now occasionally, just reward her for being good cos I love her

Sometimes I've rather wished she would love a ball, it strikes me as something that is good to help with recall or focus on you. Cass has never had the slightest interest in any toy or ball once outside our garden gate.

Would playing "find it" with high value treats hidden in the cover to be searched out work for him do you think? Again, this is something I did a lot of in Cassie's riproaring adolescence, and did again recently in the dull wet weather we had through JAn/Feb.

Hand touch is something I wished I'd taught earlier in her life, it's really powerful for her, and really helped with retrieving too.

 

[SwampDonkey]

I only allow balls at certain times and places. I take one on a walk but there's nothing set place or time I use it if at all. I do use a ball on the Training walk for a few minutes at the beginning and end. I don't my let it become a habit. I use a rabbit skin ball and a tuff e nuff pocket magnet. Ivers slower than Rory was so is easier. Rory was a nightmare. I had to work on his recall and distract like mad. I took a rucksack of toys, lovely treats and avoid stuff he found good to chase. He was then on and off his lead quickly if I saw a thing he would chase. It took time and persistence I thought he would never be able to go off lead and in certain situations. He's bombproof now and a star in most situations. It just takes time and they do get less all over the place as they get older. Rory would chase everything absolutely everything

 

[snowbunny]

My lot get balls on days that there’s hunting going on so we stay on our land. One of us will hide several balls while the other distracts the dogs (pffft) and then we just let them go “find it”. The twins LOVE this game. Squidge just eats almonds and Ginny rolls around on her back
I do take them with me on every walk, but they’re only used (with the twins) when I’ve done an emergency recall, either in training or for real, or for if they flush and turn away from a rabbit. They never, ever, get a ball during a regular walk other in those scenarios otherwise they just wouldn’t settle. Case in point, a couple of weeks ago we’d just started walking when I heard someone calling their dog(s) from the other side of a bank of trees. I recalled my hooligans and chucked balls for them. They were superstars. But for the next three or four walks, Willow was convinced I was going to throw a ball in that same spot, so was crabbing, on her tippy-toes, just really focussed on me, but in a bad, anticipatory way. We must have walked that path a thousand times without a ball, but one time with and it set the environment up as a possible ball place.
Ugh.
Happily, they eventually fell back into the understanding that they don’t get balls on walks, but it’s very clear what a drug it could be if it were allowed to be.

 

[Leanne]

My lot get balls on days that there’s hunting going on so we stay on our land. One of us will hide several balls while the other distracts the dogs (pffft) and then we just let them go “find it”. The twins LOVE this game. Squidge just eats almonds and Ginny rolls around on her back
I do take them with me on every walk, but they’re only used (with the twins) when I’ve done an emergency recall, either in training or for real, or for if they flush and turn away from a rabbit. They never, ever, get a ball during a regular walk other in those scenarios otherwise they just wouldn’t settle. Case in point, a couple of weeks ago we’d just started walking when I heard someone calling their dog(s) from the other side of a bank of trees. I recalled my hooligans and chucked balls for them. They were superstars. But for the next three or four walks, Willow was convinced I was going to throw a ball in that same spot, so was crabbing, on her tippy-toes, just really focussed on me, but in a bad, anticipatory way. We must have walked that path a thousand times without a ball, but one time with and it set the environment up as a possible ball place.
Ugh.
Happily, they eventually fell back into the understanding that they don’t get balls on walks, but it’s very clear what a drug it could be if it were allowed to be.

We are the same here. Maslow is a nightmare if I’ve used a ball for emergency recall. For days afterwards we have the picking up sticks, the laying down in front of me the prancing around constantly waiting. It’s actually not nice to see tbh

 

[snowbunny]

It’s true! I can understand that people could easily get addicted to it, too. “Oh, my dog is so focussed on me” yada yada. It’s so easy to create a monster and then not know how to “unmake” it!

I love having it as a tool in my box for sharpening up behaviours, and I do work with Squidge to increase her desire for the ball, as I’m working with Willow to get her excited about frisbees (a long term project). But that’s as a means to an end, not as an end in itself.

 

[Selina27]

Ok , I will take as a good thing that Cassie is not ball focused.
I've managed without it after all. I too am working on getting a bit more interest in a ball for certain situations. A rabbit skin ball.
I need to keep at it I think!

 

[SwampDonkey]

Rabbit skin definately a good thing. Iver wasn't interested in in tennis balls or other balls.

 

[snowbunny]

Willow, on the other hand, doesn’t like the fluffiness of rabbit skin. It offends her sensibilities

 

[Selina27]

Willow, on the other hand, doesn’t like the fluffiness of rabbit skin. It offends her sensibilities

Haha!
Don't you just love how different they all are?
I got a sheepskin tug toy for Cassie once. She was absolutely aghast, I had to send it back. But the rabbit skin dummy she loves.
I think she doesn't like the feel of a tennis ball either, but has played with a plain rubber one , very bouncy, someone gave her once.
Of course, if it's a ball Harley @Naya has brought on a sw pack walk, well that's different !

Sorry @Natalie don't mean to take over your thread xx

 

[Natalie]

@Natalie don't mean to take over your thread

I think the spin off conversations are the best bits of the forum!

I've shared some worksheets the trainer sent me on over stimulation and decompression walks with my dog walkers, they seem really interested and the owner says it has made her think about changing the way they do all their group dog walks, taking that information on board.

Bear doesn't care whether it's a ball, frisbee or a frying pan being thrown through the air for him, as long as it travels at speed and he can retrieve it. Though I think the frisbee might be his favourite as he can occasionally catch it.

I've bought a flirt pole/ whip it stick, and I'm going to use that in the garden to build up some impulse control with him. Will have to think what's best to tie on the end of it now...