loose lead workshop!

[Selina27]

My loose lead walking definitely in need of improvement, so when the chap who ran the agility class put on this workshop I jumped at the chance to go on it, it was 3 hours long! Cass bore up really well, and it wasn't until the very last few minutes that she succumbed to a brain fried headburst mouthing outburst, something she hasn't done for months.
But apart from that it was a great morning and I've lots of tools in the kit for this now! My main problem is pulling to greet dogs and other people, but we did do work using smells (lots of rabbits nearby) as a reward. He is a positive trainer, works with Nando and Victoria Stilwell (do we like her?), so there were plenty of explanations about the reasons behind it all. I know my downfall has been lack of consistency with this.
Cassie is shattered, she's been snoring since we got home!

 

[HAH]

That sounds great @Selina27, and good on Cassie for maintaining focus for (nearly!) 3 hours - that's really impressive. If you have any tips to share I'd love to hear them (although understand it's tricky to tease them out of the whole context sometimes). Goodness, it all comes back to consistency doesn't it?

 

[Selina27]

Yes @HAH, consistency is everything! I could kick myself for not putting proper effort in when she was a puppy.
I've never known her so shattered, I hardly know I've got a dog in the house tonight! It's true what they say about mental effort being more tiring than physical for these dogs!

 

[snowbunny]

Victoria Stilwell (do we like her?),

This made me laugh!!

Do we? Doesn’t matter. Do you? Also doesn’t matter. Did you like what you learned today? Is it going to make you a better trainer? If yes, cool.

If no, then you spent your money on something you didn’t learn from. Not ideal, but, hey, not the end of the world.

Do we like her? For me, that’s not relevant. I’ve heard her say some sensible stuff and some complete drivel. Like? Hmm, I’m inclined to say,”no”. I think she comes across as weak, irritating and lacking any real insight. That doesn’t mean she’s bad, though, or anything except the fact that I, personally, don’t find her on-screen person agreeable. That said, we are on the same team, fighting the “good fight” and we should stick together in that. There are things I would do differently, but she has more mass appeal. If we can come together and work towards a common goal, then we should do just that!

 

[Selina27]

This made me laugh!!

Result then!

 

[Selina27]

Did you like what you learned today? Is it going to make you a better trainer?

] Yes to both.
Although it's true to say I knew most of what was said, and Cass is familiar with the techniques --- magic hands in this context called Anticipation Game, the truth is that I've fallen abysmally short so to have a period of time to focus my brain on remedial stuff was definitely beneficial. As I say , my big problem is greeting people and other dogs, not just general walking a to b.
I've no idea about V.S, I've never seen any of her video's or teachings, really I was just providing a bit of background to the session, the trainers +R credentials.
Interesting we talked a bit about the rate of reinforcement and mixing up the value of rewards, much like a post you made a bit back, can't remember the term you gave it though. The value of MLF, keeping us one step ahead

 

[Selina27]

much like a post you made a bit back

The matching law

 

[Atemas]

Gosh you’ve been busy . The trainer I had for Red’s first puppy workshop is Victoria Stilwell trained - she was very good. I haven’t been able to find any training locally since the end of last year - both trainers I used seem to do mostly puppy training courses. I often wonder if I should be doing more with Red but in the meantime we just bumble on as we are.

 

[Selina27]

I often wonder if I should be doing more

No need is there, if you're happy!
I haven't been to any classes since the beginning of the heatwave, we've been quite happy. Admittedly I've done stuff from AD Training Academy, stuff I think you did with Red last year.
I really do want to persevere with the gundog stuff though, I love doing that with her. I'm thinking that now we seem to have a good +R trainer on the doorstep I perhaps I won't need AD.

 

[FayRose]

I also admit to lacking consistency and worse, occasionally taking the easy way out when in a hurry. You've inspired me Selina27, we have a local trainer - word of mouth says she's excellent - so I'm going to get an appt. with her, 1-2-1 to start, assuming I can afford that, and see how Molly & I get on.

 

[Beanwood]

magic hands in this context called Anticipation Game,

This ^ and how I have incorporated anticipation into our training with Bramble, combined with a rethink around simplifying cues, plus matching law has pretty much turned our training on its head, with amazing results!

nteresting we talked a bit about the rate of reinforcement and mixing up the value of rewards, much like a post you made a bit back, can't remember the term you gave it though

 

[Selina27]

This ^ and how I have incorporated anticipation into our training with Bramble, combined with a rethink around simplifying cues, plus matching law has pretty much turned our training on its head, with amazing results!

Yep, I can believe it, it's all pretty powerful for Cassie too It's exciting stuff!
Although have just had a slip up and she managed to scoot off and eat apples but a memo to self -- must play Magic Hands ?Anticipation game earlier on that walk!

 

[Selina27]

If you have any tips to share I'd love to hear them (although understand it's tricky to tease them out of the whole context sometimes

Sorry @HAH for not responding to your request earlier, I've been a bit busy lately.
We did a lot of stuff that I'd already done with her probably in the first 12 months but which for some reason I'd become slack at, getting them to focus on being in the right place by feeding treat by our thighs so that they want to be there. The main thing I think was the idea of traffic lights -- if they pull the lead tight by pulling that is "red", slack lead equals green for go. If the lead is tight encourage them back to you by making little kissy noises or nickname, once they are back to you walk forward with a slack lead and reward every few steps and build up the duration etc, If the dog is very distracted we could gently run our hands up the lead so they sort of feel the vibration.
We did "magic hands" which I do with Cassie, he called it Anticipation game because again you vary the speed of reward and also the treats that they get , I think like the matching law idea. So that was a great addition !
And we did work around using other things as a reward, like the sniff they want to get to. Only if the lead is slack can they go there. And vary the speed of walking, keeping them on their toes ! Well not literally! And he emphsised the importance of keeping engaged with them when they are on lead.
Like I say, most of it was not new to us, and Cassie has been great on lead eversince, but it was really beneficial as it has got me back on track where we should be. Both this class and the gundog training got be using my clicker again, which I haven't done for some time, and I find it's great, really sharpened things up for me

 

[Atemas]

now we seem to have a good +R trainer on the doorstep

Yes I wish we had here, I’d definitely use them.

 

[Emily_Babbelhund]

it was 3 hours long! Cass bore up really well, and it wasn't until the very last few minutes that she succumbed to a brain fried headburst mouthing outburst, something she hasn't done for months.

Sounds like a good class! I'm impressed that YOU held up for three hours, let alone Cassie. My attention span seems to stop at 1.5 hours max these days.

 

[Selina27]

I'm impressed that YOU held up for three hours,

Haha, I know, I did wonder when I booked it how I would bear up! But it was fine, there was quite a lot of listening and doing short bursts of each exercise after he explained them, plus a few breaks in which the dog's could sniff etc. The time flew by actually, and there was entertainment in the form of a very outgoing little pug, in a Pink Jumper no less, (who was it who had a hooha with one of them? Was it @Lara_Pigletina ?) who kept peering round from her section, I just kept seeing this endearingly curious and mischevious face which had me laughing out loud!

 

[HAH]

The main thing I think was the idea of traffic lights -- if they pull the lead tight by pulling that is "red", slack lead equals green for go

This is neat, and a good check for us too; we find it all too easy to overlook 'just this once', which fast becomes a habit. Also using magic hands in a more systematic way. I think I do this, but on reflection it's probably a bit hit and miss. Thanks for the write-up, this is useful to read.

 

[Charlie]

This is a great writeup and glad you have found such a wonderful trainer.

What exactly is 'magic hands'? Sorry for being thick! xx

 

[Selina27]

@Charlie , magic hands is a technique whereby you teach the dog to catch food, kibble for example , and then walk along releasing a reward for the dog, in time they see your hand as the cue to walk along side you regardless of wether it has food in it or not. You have to apply the cue "magic" once they are reliably coming to you once your hand is "in position". It's been really effective with Cassie, but I need to really development it more. I dislike the word heel, for me it has all sorts of connotations, mostly negative. So I like doing "magic hands". At my workshop, we worked with random delivery of rewards -- every 3 steps, then every 15 for example. And discussed mixing up the value of rewards -- kibble, sausage, cheese etc. So the dog doesn't know what is coming. Hence calling it "Anticipation Game". Whether this is akin to "jackpot" rewards I don't know.
Hope this answers your query!

 

[Charlie]

Thanks for the explanation @Selina27 Is this an off lead training technique or can it be used on lead? x