Deer Chasing

[SteffiS]

Toffee has always been interested in the little muntjac deer we have around here and I have had a few instances of him chasing them when he’s been off lead, however he has now taken this to another level.
Last week he ripped the lead out of my hand when he spotted one and spent the next ten minutes chasing the deer all over the fields dangerously near the road before I managed to call him back.

Then I went out with OH and he held his lead and Toffee managed to pull him over when he spotted a deer in the distance. At the weekend we were all out together and a larger deer popped out in front of us and it took me and OH holding onto Toffee’s harness to stop him from chasing after it. Even then after the deer had gone OH had great difficulty holding on to him and got pulled across a muddy field a couple of times.

I am very concerned as I don’t want Toffee chasing any animal and OH thinks this could escalate into sheep chasing, and of course there’s the danger of the road. Someone has suggested I try a head collar, I do have a gentle leader somewhere in the cupboard but I don’t want to go down that route if it’s the wrong approach. I’ve done so much work with him and he’s normally very good and focused on me, but this is something else - he completely switches off and his whole head is just full of deer .

 

[HAH]

How frustrating and scary @SteffiS -I have real sympathy with this as my mum's gorgeous teenage pup Zorro is similar although without the strength of Toffee, and without the efforts to contain the enthusiasm that you and your OH are making. I completely know the 'head full of deer' look - poor things simply can't listen or do anything but chase chase chase and it's scary. Also I think this sort of issue can pop up at any point, particularly when they're younger. You have worked so hard with him, and that will definitely have laid the foundations for working through this successfully. It's not a failure, just a hiccup along the road but that may not make it feel any better.

The fundamental issue to begin with I guess is to stop him being able to chase the deer so he doesn't rehearse the behaviour; far easier said than done, and you're trying hard to do this already. Unless it's possible to avoid the deer areas completely for now, I would suggest that in this instance the gentle leader might be a useful temporary management technique, although I completely sympathise with your reticence. My thinking is that you need to be able to put a break in that chasing behaviour, and if Toffee is determined then he's clearly very hard to hold. If you can use it comfortably and build up positive associations etc. as you would then it will hopefully be mainly reassurance for you and a security back-stop if needed. Alongside the management, you can then work on (or continue to work on) redirecting the chasing drive in more helpful ways using sheepskin tugs, whip-its, rabbit squeakers or whatever works for Toffee.

Would you consider 1:1 with a trainer/behaviourist? because this might be a really helpful and reassuring route to success, plus takes some of the pressure off you and OH to work out the best thing to do. It can feel quite a big step but they'll have the experience and expertise while also working with Toffee's character - you and Toffee already have a really strong training history and relationship, which would certainly help in working alongside an expert to address this specific issue.

 

[SteffiS]

Thank you @HAH , I'm desperately hoping this is just a hiccup which is one reason I want to stop it before it becomes too ingrained. Avoiding the deer is not easy as they pop up in the village frequently but I can minimise walking in the fields where they are more likely to be.

Toffee's obsession is normally with his ball but that also takes 2nd place to the deer, he has chased deer when he's had the ball in his mouth and amazingly never lost it, just keeping the ball in his mouth for the whole chase. I think I'll introduce some more distractions for his walks as you've suggested.

As regards the trainer that was something I hadn't thought of, I'm not really sure how to look for a trainer that deals in this specific thing but I think that would be a good idea. There is someone in the village who says they are a dog trainer (it was her who suggested the head collar) but she is a bit fond of proclaiming her qualifications in any activity that someone mentions so she's not someone I have any confidence in. I will get Toffee used to the gentle leader as having this as a back up will be useful.

I guess Toffee has always been such a good boy that this has come as rather a shock

 

[kateincornwall]

I can empathise with you , Reuben used to be the same re deer, it got him into serious trouble when he got stuck behind a deer fence and couldnt come back to me , he was only about a year old . Its a shame that the ball doesnt over ride the urge to chase as this was what I used . I`m not saying for a minute that I trust Reuben 100% when deer are in the area but it has helped a lot . I think a good trainer would be the best way forward for Toffee , could you maybe ask at your Vets if they can recommend one ? Its so hard when they are strong dogs , I wish you lots of luck , sorry I cant be more help to you x

 

[SteffiS]

Thank you Kate, unfortunately my vet is pretty rubbish but the vet who treated Toffee's eyes was excellent so I can ask them.
I'm surprised that it has taken this long for this behaviour to appear, but there does seem to be an extraordinary number of deer around here at the moment.

 

[Selina27]

I sympathise completely with you Steffis , although deer aren't a problem for Cassie hares definitely are, I understand that instantaneous reaction that gives no time to divert attention.
I don't have any suggestions but I agree finding a good +r trainer/behaviourist to help you would probably be the best thing.
It's difficult when you don't know where they will pop up in a public area and they put themselves at risk.

 

[HAH]

This is definitely a hiccup, and you're going about it in exactly the right way to address it. You know your onions, and you're doing your best by your boys.

As regards the trainer that was something I hadn't thought of, I'm not really sure how to look for a trainer that deals in this specific thing but I think that would be a good idea.

I looked into this recently for a friend with another issue, and came across the IMDT website which is quite helpful: Find a Qualified IMDT Trainer | Norfolk Just looking at Norfolk there are a few options, this chap is a trainer and behaviourist and talks about force free methods, but I think it'll be important to find one who clicks for you so I guess you might have a few phonecalls before you find the right one. I agree on your instincts about the lady in the village!

I guess Toffee has always been such a good boy that this has come as rather a shock

Toffee is a good boy, you've done a fabulous job in building your relationship - this is just a speed bump like we all come across once in a while and a reminder they're glorious, messy, living, breathing creatures with their own foibles (just like us)!

Edited to add: with my mum's dog Zorro, we've found that these tuggy-with-a-ball type toys are really popular as a short-range distraction with a treat for swapping.

 

[Atemas]

Toffee's obsession is normally with his ball

The tuggy-with-a-ball that @HAH mentions looks good - that might ‘reconnect’ Toffee to the ball being the most important thing. I hope you find a solution as soon as possible - Toffee is a good boy and it‘s such a worry if he gets near a road or is pulling you over

 

[SteffiS]

I looked into this recently for a friend with another issue, and came across the IMDT website which is quite helpful: Find a Qualified IMDT Trainer | Norfolk Just looking at Norfolk there are a few options, this chap is a trainer and behaviourist and talks about force free methods, but I think it'll be important to find one who clicks for you so I guess you might have a few phonecalls before you find the right one.

Thank you for this, that trainer is in North Norfolk quite a long way from me, however there are quite a few in the Yarmouth / Norwich area so I have sent a couple of emails to see what help is offered for dogs that chase. I am also buying a couple of suggested toys.
Toffee’s strength when he pulls is quite surprising as he’s such a small boy compared to Ripple. I’m thinking getting him a stronger harness and collar would also be a good idea. So much for no-spend January .

 

[SteffiS]

I can see the whip its on the tug-e-nuff website but not a flirt pole to attach it to, has anyone got any recommendations for a good quality one?

 

[kateincornwall]

Reuben has a Kong on a rope, which he absolutely adores , I got it from Amazon x

 

[Stacia]

You could try looking for a person who trains dogs not to chase sheep.

 

[SteffiS]

Training booked, starts Friday 4th February for 4 weeks . I’m quite looking forward to it, it’s a while since I’ve done any proper dog training so I think it will be a good experience.

 

[kateincornwall]

Training booked, starts Friday 4th February for 4 weeks . I’m quite looking forward to it, it’s a while since I’ve done any proper dog training so I think it will be a good experience.

Well done , I`m sure you will get a lot out of it, both of you xx

 

[HAH]

Training booked, starts Friday 4th February for 4 weeks . I’m quite looking forward to it, it’s a while since I’ve done any proper dog training so I think it will be a good experience.

Fantastic! Love your proactivity, that’s great. Keep us posted if you’re happy to, I’d love to hear how you find it

 

[Stacia]

A Muntjac got up in front of Rourke this afternoon, he chased it for a very short distance and then came back to me.

 

[Atemas]

Training booked,

Great stuff - well done

 

[David]

Good luck with the training. I hope it works out well. Please will you feedback how it goes and what you were doing. I'd be most interested having got similar problems with the Poppy Puppy.

 

[SteffiS]

A Muntjac got up in front of Rourke this afternoon, he chased it for a very short distance and then came back to me.

That’s great Jelinga, Rourke is obviously very well trained .

 

[Joy]

I'm glad you've found a trainer and I hope they are helpful. I look forward to hearing about your experience. I think I would worry about a headcollar in this context as if a dog lunged suddenly I think they could damage their neck. (I don't really like headcollars at all but I accept that occasionally an individual may need to use one for a limited period in a situation where it would be dangerous otherwise, but I would see this as being a situation where a dog is a steady puller, not where they might suddenly take off.)