Different Training Techniques for Different Puppies?

[Sophiedoodle]

I'm needing a bit of help!!
At work, i am doing some basic training (sit, down, stay) with a couple of the older puppies - 12 weeks old. They are from different litters but are exactly the same age - born on the same day at the exact same time!! One of the pups is brilliant and can so sit, down, stay very well and learned it quickly, the second pup on the other hand, is a nightmare and is not responding to my normal techniques at all. Every time i try get her to sit (with treat in my hand) she jumps up and grabs onto my hand, either with her claws, or her sharp teeth!! With her doing this, it is very sore and difficult to spend a decent amount of time working on it with her as she is constantly hurting me.

My usual technique (which works 95% of the time): I have the treat in my hand and let the puppy know it is there. I then, slowly, have the treat by the pups nose and draw the treat over and behind the pups head so she looks up and falls in to the 'sit' position. Then command word, and reward instantly.

Any advice would be appreciated!
(Bearing in mind i do this at work and obviously have other things to do so i'm limited as to when and how often it can be done each day)

 

[snowbunny]

I would first be teaching “no mugging” so she learns not to attack your hand. It’s a far more important skill than sit on cue anyway, I didn’t teach that to Squidge until she was several months old

As an aside, it’s not considered good practice to give the cue once the dog has already completed the behaviour; you want the cue to come first and that then triggers a movement. Remaining sat is not a behaviour you can cue, it is a lack of behaviour. There’s a thing called the “dead dog test”: if a dead dog can do it, it’s not a behaviour . The transition from a position to the sit (that is, the movement) is the behaviour. So you would ordinarily work on the behaviour until you would bet £100 on it happening - if you start with the luring method, this would mean lure to get the behaviour, then fade the lure after a handful of goes so you are just using the hand motion, and when you are sure she will respond to that, you add the verbal cue before the hand motion and then fade that out. That’s best practice, anyway.

It sounds like she is a bit of a “doer”, like Shadow, so she might respond well to shaping. I’d get her targeting a mat by shaping that, then waiting for her to offer the sit on the mat, which you can then start to reinforce and add a cue when she has the behaviour.

 

[Sophiedoodle]

Thanks for the advice! Problem is that whenever i go in or get her out to play or whatever, she's just too excited and would take her about 10 mins or so before she actually settles and sits down. Unfortunately i do not have the time to do this at work at the moment. Guess I'll have to persuade mum to let me bring her home!!
Would it make it better or worse to bring both of them out together to do the training? Rather than individually?

 

[Oberon]

Definitely train them individually

 

[snowbunny]

Probably worse. I think you’re right, there’s nothing for it but for you to bring her home

 

[Emily]

Guess I'll have to persuade mum to let me bring her home!!

I think that's the only real option

What do you do for work?

 

[Jacqui-S]

here’s nothing for it but for you to bring her home

To be fair on old Mum here, this is the first weekend for what seems like MONTHS that @Sophiedoodle hasn't brought her work home.......

 

[Sophiedoodle]

@Jacqui-S i have a very important job to do! These puppies need socialisation from a young age!

What do you do for work?

I work for an Australian Labradoodle Breeder

 

[MaccieD]

Hi @Sophiedoodle I wouldn't even try to train a sit at the moment with this pup. Instead wirk on rewarding for each and every glance towards you gradually building towards eye contact. No need to verbalize anything apart from verbal marker for the glance. Treat does not have to be taken from hand but can be tossed on the floor in front of dog or even teach a 'catch' for the treat. The less time a treat spends in the hand the better. Building eye contact is very quick with reward based methods and from there you will often fine that a 'sit' is offered that you can capture and reward.

 

[Sophiedoodle]

She’s such a loving pup and eye contact is not a problem at all! She comes running when you call her name and is happy to have cuddles etc! It’s only when I try and train her that she becomes a little monster!
But thank you for the advice!

 

[Charlie]

@Sophiedoodle I'm no expert, but would a little clicker training maybe help? xx

 

[bird]

I agree with @MaccieD I wouldn't worry about sit. I'd spend time working on calm behaviours and attention on you. Once you have those training will be just as fast as the other pup. Also if luring is causing problems then you could try some free shaping, she must sit sometimes

 

[Sophiedoodle]

It’s my day off tomorrow so I’m going to bring her home from work tonight and spend the day tomorrow with her so I can keep an eye on her at all times (which I obviously can’t do at work) and hopefully we’ll get somewhere with that x

 

[bird]

The other thing that occurs to me is that she doesn't know she has to 'earn' food so you could start with training stuff that doesn't encourage mugging (ie no luring required) and see if she learns about learning....

 

[Candy]

Hello Sophie, just out of interest, how old is this pup? Joy started puppy school at 5 months. Her recall was great and she would sit, but everything else was a bit of a nightmare and she was constantly bored, biting me (I was the only person wearing gardening gloves all the time) and generally not seeming to 'get' it. Looking back, I think she was just a bit too young to cope with more than what she was already doing, and the hour long sessions were far too long for her. However, the trainer was sensible and patient and very clear that this was all work in progress and in no way about passing or failing. I learned some useful techniques from him that I continue to use, and from about 8-9 months she became a lovely little sponge, just ready and willing to soak up training and finding it all great fun. I think that like us, puppies mature at different rates. Good luck with that little sweetheart. Oh, and yes! You'd probably better take her home with you!

 

[Sophiedoodle]

The pup is 12 1/2 weeks old now. I only do maybe 3 or 4, 5/10 minute training sessions per day so it’s not that she’s bored, I think she just gets very excited to have the one to one human contact being away from the other pup got nowhere with her today

 

[Emily]

Is it like an "over the threshold" type excitement?

I wonder if you could put a pair of gloves on to save your hands and try to teach her to stop mugging? Hopefully she'll learn quite quickly once you're able to keep your hand still through the biting?

 

[bird]

She's just a baby Sophie don't get disheartened she loves to be with you, that's a great thing! Give yourselves a break, teach her something else.

 

[snowbunny]

I agree with @bird. There's no rush - puppies want to play and they can learn a lot through doing just that. More formal training can turn them off to it, so why not do something else? Honestly, sit is one of the least important things in the world
If she's playful and mouthy, I'd start playing with toys - teaching her first off that you're not interested in taking it away from her, so play with her, stroke her etc while it's in her mouth and don't try to get it away from her. This is one of the most important things I did with Squidge - she still brings me things to show me and sits on my lap rather than running off (for the most part ) because she learned early on that I'm not going to take things away from her.
Later on, you can then introduce a "give" as part of the game.

 

[Sophiedoodle]

WE HAVE PROGRESS!
Brandy (the devil pup) was very good today as I had time to have her out with me while doing work and praised her whenever she sat down and settled, and I even got a “sit” on command! I feel like a proud mum!