Anyone got any tips on training a stand?
- Thread starter Beanwood
- Start date
- Location
- Andorra and Spain
In what context? Do you mean standing from a sit or down, or stopping from a walk and remaining in a stand? Or a stand for inspection? Or something else? 
Emily_Babbelhund
Mama Red HOT Pepper
- Location
- Regensburg, Germany
Just your luck, this was in my SD curriculum reading for today.
These are my own notes from Donna Hill's Service Dog Training Institute Foundation Skills Class. Any errors of interpretation from her original (much longer) instructions are my own. Hopefully this is not considered a no-no to share. If yes, Mods feel free to delete my post.
There is a second module on adding duration to the stand to follow.
Stand
These are my own notes from Donna Hill's Service Dog Training Institute Foundation Skills Class. Any errors of interpretation from her original (much longer) instructions are my own. Hopefully this is not considered a no-no to share. If yes, Mods feel free to delete my post.
There is a second module on adding duration to the stand to follow.
Stand
- Recommended to use a clicker to capture the leg lock (moment the dog locks his leg joints or tightens muscles)
- Recommended to use a platform which is big enough for the dog to stand on (so width and length to accommodate dog’s four feet in natural standing posture, 2 inches or higher)
- If you want to teach your dog to do a stand without moving his front feet, you can use a smaller target platform (dog’s shoulder width and about 5 inches long) and teach him to put his front feet on that to start
- Use a surface that gives your dog traction (mat, rug) but not the platform yet.
- Click/mark the instant all four feet are still.
- Be ready to click just as your dog starts pushing into a stand with his hind legs. This way the end of your click happens when he’s actually standing. A split second later and you may be clicking for moving feet, which isn’t what you want.
- Feeding at chest height helps keep the dog in position to prolong the stand
- Just let the dog follow the nose target (your hand) to get into position. Once you mark the stand and treat, let the dog go into whatever position he wants, then use the nose target to get him into standing position again.
- At this point, he’s just following the nose target and not understanding that you’re asking him to do a stand. That’s ok!
- Next, start specifically cueing a sit and a nose target standfrom that position.
- Next, start specifically cueing a down and a nose target standfrom that position.
- Tip: it’s fine to mark and treat for the cued positions (sit, down) in addition to the stand, but it’s easier to pick a first position that your dog likes so you don’t need to mark and treat. Then move on to the second position that may require marking and treating.
- As with training Go to Mat, only let your dog interact with the platform when you are training – this builds interest.
- This objective is just a modification of Go Mat
- Step 1: mark and reinforce any paw touches to the platform
- Use jackpot rewards or multiple treats if 2-4 paws come into contact with the platform
- If your dog becomes stuck, re-set him by moving away from the platform
- Mark when dog is on the platform, feed away from the platform
- If the dog stays standing on the platform, stream treats
- Don’t worry if he has ‘dancing feet’ at first – this is normal!
- Ideally the dog stays on the platform for the whole set, but if he gets off, just get him right back on.
- Step 1: mark for all four feet on platform and front paws still
- Step 2: mark for all four feet on platform and all four paws still
- This is the point you can start adding a hand cue if you want to.
Beanwood
Administrator
@snowbunny err...really good question. Otter has a default sit, when we start to work she tends to sit and watch me first. Not ideal but what she does. I guess at the moment it would be from a sit...then adding duration. I really like @HAH's stand for a minute then add duration. In the immediate future though I think it will make working with balance discs/peanuts etc plus paw discrimination much easier!
@Emily_Babbelhund wow! Thank you! Just amazing!
@Emily_Babbelhund wow! Thank you! Just amazing!
Thanks @Emily_Babbelhund from me too, I want to work on this! Maybe it could be the August forum challenge?
A 'sustained stand' was something I stumbled across at the searching workshop I went on a few weeks ago. One of the attendees I know is an animal (particularly dog) physio, and when we were all discussing fitness for searches she mentioned that it's surprising how many dogs she sees that can't stand for very long. She uses it as a diagnostic for overall physical health, and pointed out that it actually uses a lot of muscle, core strength and fine motor control to hold solidly. I've been watching Kipper's stand ever since - it's not bad, but I'd like to work more on it so thanks again @Emily_Babbelhund
A 'sustained stand' was something I stumbled across at the searching workshop I went on a few weeks ago. One of the attendees I know is an animal (particularly dog) physio, and when we were all discussing fitness for searches she mentioned that it's surprising how many dogs she sees that can't stand for very long. She uses it as a diagnostic for overall physical health, and pointed out that it actually uses a lot of muscle, core strength and fine motor control to hold solidly. I've been watching Kipper's stand ever since - it's not bad, but I'd like to work more on it so thanks again @Emily_Babbelhund
- Location
- Andorra and Spain
My method is similar to what @Emily_Babbelhund has written above, except I don't lure forwards from a sit. That's because I'm very picky about what I want my stand to look like - I want it to be a "kick-back stand", meaning that the front feet stay in position and the back legs step out into place. The reasons for being fussy are (in no particular order):
1. Good for rear-end awareness
2. If the dog learns to stick their front feet to the floor when changing positions, they will remain lined up with you if at heel. So kick-back stands, tuck sits, and fold-back downs are more precise than the alternatives, where your dog will be moving relative to you with each movement.
3. Because the stand (and sit, and down) can be initiated by either the front end or the back end of the dog, choosing one of these movement patterns is far clearer for the dog to learn. Otherwise you're using the same cue for two different movement patterns, and that's a cardinal sin in training - multiple cues for one behaviour is OK, but it is not OK to have a single cue meaning more than one thing.
4. It's preferred for Rally, Obedience etc.
To start with, I do loads of reinforcement for standing on a mat or good-sized placeboard. It's good to have a specific "stand" platform in the early stages, especially if your dog is used to sitting on a placeboard. Build that reinforcement for standing still in position - as @Emily_Babbelhund says, feeding at chest height. Then you can start to feed above the head to lure the dog into an uncued sit. I don't use a cued sit because that means "sit and stay sat until I tell you to do something else", so I don't want to introduce them breaking that behaviour. Hopefully, if you've reinforced the stand enough, once you've lured and fed the sit, the dog will pop back into a stand. Click the movement of the back legs going out, and reinforce back into the sit, so you get nice "loopy training" going on.
Once you have that, use a smaller front foot target. Again, start by heavily reinforcing the front feet on and still. Work on them "sticking" to the target, by luring the dog's nose so that she stretches ever so slightly, C&Ting before she moves her feet. You can also drop food on the floor etc and reinforce for her keeping those front feet on the target and still. You should be able to build it up so that she really reaches for a piece of food in your hand, without moving those front feet at all. Once she has the idea, you can lure her into a sit and, as before, wait for the kick-back stand. If she gets stuck at any point, toss a reset treat behind her, then start with reinforcing in place in a stand again.
Once she's popping up in a kick-back stand reliably, you can put it on verbal cue and fade out your platform.
1. Good for rear-end awareness
2. If the dog learns to stick their front feet to the floor when changing positions, they will remain lined up with you if at heel. So kick-back stands, tuck sits, and fold-back downs are more precise than the alternatives, where your dog will be moving relative to you with each movement.
3. Because the stand (and sit, and down) can be initiated by either the front end or the back end of the dog, choosing one of these movement patterns is far clearer for the dog to learn. Otherwise you're using the same cue for two different movement patterns, and that's a cardinal sin in training - multiple cues for one behaviour is OK, but it is not OK to have a single cue meaning more than one thing.
4. It's preferred for Rally, Obedience etc.
To start with, I do loads of reinforcement for standing on a mat or good-sized placeboard. It's good to have a specific "stand" platform in the early stages, especially if your dog is used to sitting on a placeboard. Build that reinforcement for standing still in position - as @Emily_Babbelhund says, feeding at chest height. Then you can start to feed above the head to lure the dog into an uncued sit. I don't use a cued sit because that means "sit and stay sat until I tell you to do something else", so I don't want to introduce them breaking that behaviour. Hopefully, if you've reinforced the stand enough, once you've lured and fed the sit, the dog will pop back into a stand. Click the movement of the back legs going out, and reinforce back into the sit, so you get nice "loopy training" going on.
Once you have that, use a smaller front foot target. Again, start by heavily reinforcing the front feet on and still. Work on them "sticking" to the target, by luring the dog's nose so that she stretches ever so slightly, C&Ting before she moves her feet. You can also drop food on the floor etc and reinforce for her keeping those front feet on the target and still. You should be able to build it up so that she really reaches for a piece of food in your hand, without moving those front feet at all. Once she has the idea, you can lure her into a sit and, as before, wait for the kick-back stand. If she gets stuck at any point, toss a reset treat behind her, then start with reinforcing in place in a stand again.
Once she's popping up in a kick-back stand reliably, you can put it on verbal cue and fade out your platform.