Aspen attacked by my sisters dog

[alschwahn]

My sister has a very reactive GSD named Maggie who is 6. She was attacked by a mastiff when she was about 2 and my sister and her husband never really did anything about it. Well, 4 years later she absolutely cannot be around any dog other than Aspen and my sisters other dog, Chester.

My sister worried that Maggie would attack Chester when he was a puppy, so we made sure to introduce them early. Maggie took a liking to Aspen and really treats him like he is her baby.

However, Maggie attacks her own brother Chester. She’s attacked him twice in the last month. Last time she bit him he had multiple puncture wounds and even bit him down to the bone. Chester is a Westie so he isn’t very big and really can’t protect himself from Maggie. She has been attacking him since I was probably 16, and I am 21 now.

My sister is always upset over it but Maggie is “her husbands dog” and he refuses to put her down. The issue here is that neither of them are willing to do anything about her behavior. So, it’s just this vicious cycle of Maggie attacking Chester and nothing really ever getting resolved.

Well none of us thought she would attack Aspen because they have such a strong bond, but today she finally attacked him. They were both outside barking at something and Maggie turned around and bit his snout. He has a chunk of skin that has been bitten through and was bleeding pretty badly. Aspen is not really dog smart when it comes to body language and warnings from other dogs, so I’m not sure if this will effect his behavior in any way. He really is a good-natured, kind dog and I don’t want this to change him. He was fine after he was bitten and doesn’t seem to fear Maggie.

Are there any precautions I should take with Aspen? And what do you think the best option is with Maggie? I am afraid she will attack either Aspen or Chester to a point where we will lose them to her attacking them so badly.

 

[Lab_adore]

Oh no @alschwahn I am so sorry this happened to lovely Aspen. I don't have any advice and will leave that to the experts, but you must have been beside yourself when it happened and you obviously now can't leave them alone together.

 

[Xena Dog Princess]

Until your sister and BIL deal proactively with Maggie's issues, I would not bring Aspen around her. I'm sorry, Maggie needs serious help and it's grossly negligent of your sister to brush her issues under the rug.

 

[Natalie]

You can't ultimately control what your family decide to do with Maggie, all you can do is protect Aspen, I wouldn't even have them together let alone left together unsupervised. Poor little Chester too, I would really fear for his safety

 

[Jen]

My husbands brother has a staffie who can be temperamental. I’ve never let her meet Stanley.

I always say she has to stay away when we go around because she’s the one with the problem, not Stanley.

She will never meet Rory either.

 

[Granca]

I’m glad Aspen is fine, but it could have been much worse. Would your sister consider muzzling Maggie if you still want the dogs to be together? Even if they are never left unattended, things can spark off very quickly. My friends’ lab was bitten by their daughter’s staffie, even though they were very used to each other and had played together for several years. The dogs can no longer be together at all as, in the case of the staffie, it was extremely difficult to get him to release his grip on the lab.

 

[Boogie]

Oh no @alschwahn, so sorry to hear this.

Poor Chester, he’s getting off worse here

I wouldn’t have my dog near Maggie without Maggie being muzzled.
.

 

[HAH]

I’m really sorry @alschwahn , what a horrible situation. I’d definitely be avoiding Maggie where possible, and if not possible she needs a muzzle near Aspen. No discussion in my mind, especially if her owners don’t recognize the problem.

 

[kateincornwall]

My sympathies are 100% for Aspen and Chester . Even whilst being muzzled , an aggressive dog can be exceedingly frightening with the body language and noises . This responsibility is that of your sister and her husband , yours is to ensure that Aspen is safe , I wouldnt let this dog within a mile of one of mine, muzzle or not . I`m so sorry this has happened x

 

[MellowYellow]

Oh that's awful, I am so sorry. I echo the others, keep Aspen safe, the dogs cannot be together.

Just a word about muzzles - Poppy was quite badly bitten a couple of years ago by a dog wearing a muzzle. It was at a party at my sister's house, the dog came running over to Pops and knocked her down. We were annoyed but didn't really worry too much, after all she was wearing a muzzle (one of those basket ones). The same thing happened again twenty minutes later - the dog got away from its owners, ran over and knocked Poppy over and held her on the floor. This time my husband kicked the dog away, and insisted the people take the dog away from the party. Poppy was very quiet and sad, but it was only a week later that we noticed she had a big puncture wound on the back of her neck, deep in her ruff. It was all scabbed over by that time. She still has a bald spot there.

 

[FayRose]

I agree with what most of the others are saying @alschwahn I wouldn't let Molly near Maggie. Such a shame she can't be helped, mind you would it work?

I met a couple while we were out walking recently, they had 2 choc lab boys, one on a lead. As we were in an area where most dogs are off lead, seeing that, I put Molls on her lead. She can still run up to people and dogs and there is usually a good reason a dog is on a lead. To cut a long story short, the on lead dog is very reactive and did actually snap at Molly, even though she was out of reach. The couple have had him since he was 7 months and without knowing the details they fear he had a poor start in life. He is now 6 and despite constant attempts to help him, they have got nowhere.

 

[Anne123]

My sister has 4 Dobermanns. She would never let Finn or other dogs play with them. She always try to find a spot where she can unleash them and have a swim or run freely. She hates the thought of one of them attacking another dog. Because of their appearance they will always get the blame....We don’t let them meet or play together. A sort of no go.

Just as the others say I would not let them play or be together anymore. They have to sort things out by themselves, don’t be in the middle of this!

 

[Beanwood]

My heart goes out to Maggie and Chester. Really not a good situation for either of them. It would be less stressful for both of them to keep them completely separated. if they won't consider any clinical behaviour support,maybe even look at rehoming Chester so they can both get some peace and quiet. Very sad. Have they ruled out any pain that Maggie might be experiencing? It sounds like her behaviour has started to escalate.

 

[snowbunny]

The couple have had him since he was 7 months and without knowing the details they fear he had a poor start in life. He is now 6 and despite constant attempts to help him, they have got nowhere.

would it work?

I have a bit of an eye-rolling feeling when people believe that their adopted dog was mistreated or had bad experiences in a previous life because of how they are now. Honestly, this morning, I lifted my foot to step over the long line which was a couple of inches above the floor, and Shadow cowered away from me as if he had been regularly kicked at some point in his life. Um, no. I'm not saying I've never stood on a paw, because stuff like that just happens when you live with dogs, but his reaction on occasion is really incredibly strong - what I would consider to be an over-reaction (although it obviously isn't to him). In any event, you can't change the thing that has caused it - whether that is genetics, some learning history, or both. Looking backwards like that and assigning the behaviour as a property of the dog, rather than a property of his current environment, means that it's very easy to block yourself from believing it is modifiable.

It is all just behaviour, that is being expressed within a certain environment.

It doesn't mean it's easy to fix - I am acutely aware of this myself, as you know! - but I also strongly believe that, yes, these things can be sorted out to an acceptable level, and the dog taught new ways to communicate the thing they need. But, the first step (after ensuring there is no health problem that is causing the issue), is managing the environment, which means preventing the undesirable behaviour from happening. Identify the environment and antecedents in which the behaviour is expressed, and change that.

If I were in your shoes, @alschwahn, I'd just be keeping Aspen out of that situation. If she is not prepared to do anything to address the issue between her own dogs, I would have little faith that she would be able to put the structure in place to stop her attacking Aspen again. As others have said, even muzzled, it can be a scary situation for anyone, and will only create negative associations. Better keep him out of it altogether.

 

[Beanwood]

Personally I believe anxiety caused by genetics is a lot harder to fix that anxiety from the environment, not sure "fix" is the right terminology! If you are wired to react a certain way, life is tough, not impossible but tough. You have to teach your dog to think in a different way. Benson is wired to be completely bombproof and it would be nigh on possible to change that. Casper was reactive due to environmental factors, and largely most of those he has been able to resolve, once he learnt how to stop and think, then realise it's OK.

Not only has Otter been wired the "wrong way" (I hope and pray that I am wrong... ) but sadly she has experienced some instances that have reinforced her beliefs, ie: countless visits to the vets. I think because this anxiety is so precise, that something may have happened at approximately 6-7 weeks old. It's a bummer.

 

[snowbunny]

Personally I believe anxiety caused by genetics is a lot harder to fix that anxiety from the environment,

To some extent, but... even if the dog is genetically predisposed to the overly anxious, that anxiety will only manifest within a certain environment. Environment and genetics cannot be separated, they are two sides of the same coin. We should always do what we can to manage the environment first and address the behaviour second (going back to the humane hierarchy - whichever iteration you choose to follow).

Again, as soon as we start labelling the behaviour as a property of the dog, we become helpless to change that behaviour. I think the genetic predisposition limits the possible breadth of normal behaviours, (that is, it's unlikely that an animal who is naturally wary of strangers will ever be the life and soul of the party), but that doesn't mean it's not possible to shift the current behaviours to something that's more appropriate. As long as you can identify the function of the behaviour, and give the animal another way to achieve that same function, then you're a large part of the way there. This is something I've been working on with Shadow recently (which I'll tell you all about when I get the time to write it up).

Susan Friedman has a really useful template for this - her Functional Assessment and Intervention Design.

 

[Oberon]

Oh no @alschwahnI wouldn’t have my dog near Maggie without Maggie being muzzled..

Agree 100%. No muzzle, no visit. To be honest I personally would never take my dog there again.

What a dreadful situation for Chester. It is incredibly cruel to expose him to pain and fear by exposing him to Maggie on a daily basis.

 

[Naya]

I’m really sorry this has happen to Aspen. I would keep him away from your sisters dog as your job is to keep Aspen safe and if this happened again, he may start to have negative associations with other dogs. I really feel for Maggie and Chester as it sounds like nothing is managed and something serious will happen soon.

 

[MellowYellow]

Agree 100%. No muzzle, no visit. To be honest I personally would never take my dog there again.

What a dreadful situation for Chester. It is incredibly cruel to expose him to pain and fear by exposing him to Maggie on a daily basis.

Yes that poor little dog must constantly be expecting things to kick off again...

 

[Beanwood]

To some extent, but... even if the dog is genetically predisposed to the overly anxious, that anxiety will only manifest within a certain environment.

Yup...this is what we are looking at with Otter right now...her anxiety has manifested as people coming forward, looking at her, something we need to unravel and work on. Frequent vet visits has not helped. Balloons, cars, tractors, shot, bangs, thunderstorms..other dogs...doors banging...nada. A human looking directly at her though is not good. If they are at a distance - doing something she is fairly OK. But hey ho, she is only 5 months old...

This is brilliant! Really useful...

Susan Friedman has a really useful template for this - her Functional Assessment and Intervention Design.