Crying before a poo?

[Emily_Babbelhund]

OK, this is kind of a weird one. Carbon has started doing a funny little cry/whine before he has a BM. He did it in the past on rare occasions, usually after a raw meal including bone. Then it made sense because he didn't chew the bone well enough and it was painful coming out (I don't feed him that anymore).

For the past month, we've been working on elimination on cue. He already had a wee on cue, but now he has one for a poo as well. I notice that the whining before a poo seems to be for 'cued poos' vs. 'free range poos'. Could that have anything to do with it? He doesn't seem distressed in any other way and is always thrilled to get his treat afterwards. Maybe the whine is just his way of working really hard to get that treat for a cued BM?

I'm not really worried about him, just curious.

 

[MellowYellow]

Two thoughts:

The grass eating you describe could be part of it. Think of all that grass in his bowels...

Secondly, I’m sure that the BM cue has to do with it, a bit of generalized angst that he might not be able to do the poo and so miss out on his treat... I’ve never heard of cueing for a poo before!

 

[snowbunny]

I’ve Never heard of cueing for a poo before!

Yeah, that's weird. I'm thinking about it from my own perspective, I could always manage to squeeze out a drop or two of wee if asked (although would find it very strange that someone would ask me ), but poo? Um, no!

I'm with Karen, it could easily be frustration/conflict/uncertainty.

 

[Aitch]

If he really doesn't need to poo and is forcing it then it could be giving him an ache. I would never cue for a poo. Just let it all happen more naturally.

 

[Emily_Babbelhund]

eah, that's weird. I'm thinking about it from my own perspective, I could always manage to squeeze out a drop or two of wee if asked (although would find it very strange that someone would ask me ), but poo? Um, no!

If he really doesn't need to poo and is forcing it then it could be giving him an ache. I would never cue for a poo. Just let it all happen more naturally.

The poo cue is part of his service dog training. Brogan had a general 'potty' cue (meaning either pee or poo) but not poo. However, it's very useful to have for situations such as airline or train travel when the dog needs to go for his own good and you know it will be his only chance for the next 6 hours (for example). Also he needs to be 'emptied out' before we set out because he will be going places where elimination isn't allowed. Ultimately having a solid poo cue (pun intended) is for his own comfort and well-being.

It's also a cue, not a command. If he doesn't have a BM, nothing bad happens - he simply misses out on one of a dozen treats he's going to get anyway. If nothing 'happens' after a few minutes of waiting, we just continue on. As we're still building the cue, I also only cue him when I see he's about to squat and even that at his normal poo times. But he's so treat-mad that I do wonder of the whining could be from performance anxiety!

 

[HAH]

The poo cue is part of his service dog training. Brogan had a general 'potty' cue (meaning either pee or poo) but not poo. However, it's very useful to have for situations such as airline or train travel when the dog needs to go for his own good and you know it will be his only chance for the next 6 hours (for example). Also he needs to be 'emptied out' before we set out because he will be going places where elimination isn't allowed. Ultimately having a solid poo cue (pun intended) is for his own comfort and well-being.

It's also a cue, not a command. If he doesn't have a BM, nothing bad happens - he simply misses out on one of a dozen treats he's going to get anyway. If nothing 'happens' after a few minutes of waiting, we just continue on. As we're still building the cue, I also only cue him when I see he's about to squat and even that at his normal poo times. But he's so treat-mad that I do wonder of the whining could be from performance anxiety!

So, I’m currently working on a project all about children with continence issues, and it’s been an eye opener in so many ways but a couple of things occur that may translate to canines (usual caveats apply, and do correct me if you know better!). Firstly, psychology has a huge impact on bladder and bowel movements so any degree of behavior motivation can affect movements in potentially unexpected ways. And secondly, whilst the bladder is a ‘polite’ organ (this was a continence surgeon’s terminology!) which will send signals that it’s filling up but basically wait until you give it permission to release, the bowel is fundamentally a bag that lacks the fine neurological motor control - so the muscles control opening and closing but it is less well designed for ‘squeezing one out’ compared to the bladder. You either need to go or you don’t.
I wonder if this is a slight dissonance for Carbón? I’m intrigued it’s part of Service Dog training as this suggests they can regulate bowel movements to an extent. Or maybe it is more of a reminder to do the thing if you need to do the thing - like we’ll say to Kipper ‘have a drink?’ If he’s e.g. standing in a clean river, and 8 times out of 10 he’ll go ‘oh yeah, okay!’.

 

[Emily_Babbelhund]

Or maybe it is more of a reminder to do the thing if you need to do the thing -

This is way I'm trying to teach it at the moment. His wee cue I know he can do every time so I'll wait until he gets at least a little out and then mark and treat. What I'm hoping with the poo cue is that by repeating it over and over after he's started the motion of going all by himself, it will eventually be like your 'drink' cue: a reminder of something he would have done anyway.

In the SD curriculum it is definitely taught as any other cue with the expectation that the dog will learn to successfully follow the cue consistently and in varied locations. But as a fellow mammal with similar organs, I agree that having a BM consistently on cue seems like a very tough ask!

 

[Rosie]

the whining could be from performance anxiety

I like this idea!

 

[M.F.]

I can’t see why a cue can’t work for BMs. While I’ve never trained it, I notice that Snowie will go on “cue”, the cue being an environmental one. He has specific spots where he goes. It can be any time of the day we’ll walk that route, but when he sees “that spot” and if he’s had the long enough walk (I guess it helps with the general movement), he invariably goes.

 

[Anne123]

I can’t see why a cue can’t work for BMs. While I’ve never trained it, I notice that Snowie will go on “cue”, the cue being an environmental one. He has specific spots where he goes. It can be any time of the day we’ll walk that route, but when he sees “that spot” and if he’s had the long enough walk (I guess it helps with the general movement), he invariably goes.

Yes, so does Finn and all our other labs before Finn. I make sure that when we are going somewhere that Finn had his poos. He is only doing this once a day, so easy said of course...

 

[Emily_Babbelhund]

I can’t see why a cue can’t work for BMs. While I’ve never trained it, I notice that Snowie will go on “cue”, the cue being an environmental one. He has specific spots where he goes. It can be any time of the day we’ll walk that route, but when he sees “that spot” and if he’s had the long enough walk (I guess it helps with the general movement), he invariably goes.

It does actually seem to be working. Even though we have a garden at the house, he hasn't used it for a poo for several days now. He seems intent on saving it up for our 3x day walks to his elimination spot. He'll have a sneaky marking wee in the garden, but not the poo. I'm pretty excited about this poo on cue thing as it will be very useful in many situations.

I'm now wondering if the little crying thing isn't simply to do with the increased grass eating lately as @snowbunny suggested. His poos are very hard lately and have lots of grass in there.

The time and intensity we dog people think about poo. I'm sure that's not weird or anything.

 

[Atemas]

The time and intensity we dog people think about poo. I'm sure that's not weird or anything.

Now Sky has had a few accidents in the house because of her old age and arthritis, I can encourage her to poo . I just say ‘seek seek’ very briskly and quietly and she will start to do a canter round the lawn - after a little bit, she has a poo. If we are going out, I then know she is ok and comfortable.

 

[Emily_Babbelhund]

If we are going out, I then know she is ok and comfortable.

That's the thing - you feel better once you know they are comfortable, right?

 

[Jen]

Stanley poos on command.

If he needs one he’ll do one. If he doesn’t he won’t.

I just say “wee wee” and “poo poo” and he knows the difference.

Neighbours probably think I’m bonkers!

 

[Emily_Babbelhund]

I just say “wee wee” and “poo poo” and he knows the difference.

The neighbours definitely think you're bonkers, but don't let it worry you.

I never thought about the 'Go potty" command until Brogan and I started traveling and I had to do it in front of people. By then it was WAY too late to change. So when I started the 'go poo' training with Carbon, I gave a long hard think to what I would feel NOT embarrassed to say in public. I settled on "Go two". Still embarrassing, but slightly less so than "Go potty"...which sounds like I'm talking to a recalcitrant 3 year old.

 

[Emily]

I say "do weeeeeeeeeeeeees" in a truely embarrassing, high pitched voice

She'll always squeeze out a wee but will only do a poo if one is sufficiently "brewed"

 

[Kelsey]

Axel will forget to do a poo because he’s excited so I’ll tell him ‘go poo’ then off he goes. It is handy for sure! He never forgets his morning poo but sometimes forgets his evening poo

 

[HAH]

We just have a wee cue which is ‘puddles!’ Inherited from the breeder, by the time I realised the actual value, it seemed too late to change the word.

 

[Emily_Babbelhund]

We just have a wee cue which is ‘puddles!’

Oooo - I like that one!

 

[Boogie]

Yes, our pups have a poo on cue too. I use it if I know Spencer needs one but hasn’t yet had one - so that we have clean walks. I keep a poo diary so that I know the pups’ poo routines.

Guide Dog owners do the same - not the diary, the asking for a poo at home so they are clean out and about.

After being the widdliest puppy ever Spencer is brilliant at spending ( wees and/or poos) on cue and on any surface, lead or no lead.

Our cue words are ‘busy busy’ for a wee and ‘big busy’ for a poo.