Flea and Tick treatments damage waterways

[Jacqui-S]

This isn't new.
I know it has been discussed before, but one of the reasons I never liked the spot on treatments (oh yeah ........and the fact they don't work well against Ticks for us).
I know Bravecto orally has its issues, but it's still my poison of choice.
I thought this article in The Guardian was quite useful.
I must admit I didn't think that showering /bathing a dog at home would wash the insecticides into sewers and then into rivers, but of course when it's written down it is logical.
Would making these products prescription only help our dogs, or would people just not use them and the health of dogs decline? I'm not sure.
Thought for today.

 

[Sophiedoodle]

Would making these products prescription only help our dogs, or would people just not use them and the health of dogs decline?

But why treat with the products if there’s no problem to fix I do it because I have to as part of the breeding programme but I likely wouldn’t. I rarely give Oreo the spot on... think I only did it twice this year!

 

[Selina27]

Well defintely something to make you think, the fact that treatments used on individual animals for worms/ticks/fleas can and do have an effect on the wider environment isn't new to me but I didn't realise to what extent.

For a while now we get Rosie's (horse) poo analysed because of the detrimental effect on insect/microflora in the soil, so she's only wormed if necessary.
My dogs and cats are treated for fleas if I can see evidence, not routinely. Cassie has never had any, to date. So for us there is no detrimental effect, it's difficult to think what might happen in the wider community.

 

[SwampDonkey]

I only use spot on. I only do it perhaps twice or 3 times a year. We live in a very active lung worm area so I do use a spot in with I wormer in. I never wash my dogs.

 

[Joy]

I was reading about this earlier this morning and I was shocked at how widespread the chemicals are in the waterways but it's a tricky decision. I'm not concerned about fleas but I use Endectrid spot-on, prescribed by vet, to protect against lungworm as we are in a high lungworm area and Molly licks and bites at soil. I very rarely wash Molly but she goes in rivers and sea daily in the summer. When it needs renewing I think I will ask the vet what alternatives there are.

 

[snowbunny]

There is no one-size-fits-all. I use spot-on tick treatment because the diseases the ticks carry here are very dangerous and we have a lot of them in the spring. This year I haven't treated for them because by the time we came to Spain there were no ticks (they disappear for the summer as it's too hot) and they haven't reappeared yet this autumn, so there is no point. But the first sign of them, the dogs will be getting their Advantix without a second thought. I very, very rarely wash my dogs and they sadly don't get much opportunity to swim when we're here.

I'm not sure what to do with the new two; there is no way I can get a spot-on or tick collar on them, so it may be that I use an oral form of treatment.

 

[kateincornwall]

Very highly deer populated area here where I walk the dogs , lots of ticks as I know to my cost . Reuben has Bravecto as he does go in the rivers that run through the woods so at least its minimising the risk of poisoning the water courses . I never bothered giving Nelly anything as she tends to stay close to me but then she picked up a couple of ticks this summer so she also had Bravecto . I usually try to give Reubs a break from it during the winter months although if its mild weather, the little blighters are still around x

 

[Boogie]

I very much hope that doesn’t include Nexgard, our default flea treatment.

 

[FayRose]

We have to use tick treatment as we are also in an area with a high deer population. In fact on 1 walk in the NT woods some years ago, our spaniel came back with 25 ticks on him, mainly on his face

We use Seresto collars now on Molly and the cat and I can honestly say I have never seen a tick on any of the animals since we started usuing them, not pretty things but very effective. However, they work by contact with the animal's skin, the chemical being absorbed so I guess that also finds its way into the ground, waterways as well. Worrying when you think of the numbers of treated animals.

 

[David]

Advocate actually has a warning in it's advice leaflet saying that it's deadly to aquatic life even in very small quantities and that dogs should be kept away from water for (I think) 4 days after treatment. It's "buried" right at the end of the leaflet and also deep into the more detailed information available on line. I can only wonder if that's deliberate so it doesn't jump out and put users off using it. Normally that sort of warning is right up front in the documentation. I haven't checked recently by the way as I no longer have any to hand.

I used advocate on Lady because we are in a lung worm area and it's one of the treatments that can stop that particularly nasty invasion.

It's no great hardship to have the dog avoid water courses and ponds for a few days. Also I think the makers have a duty of care to put warnings right up front and for vets (prescription only) to warn about it when issuing.

I think I take with a pinch of salt the accuracy of reports that all watercourses have been measured to have dangerous levels without more detailed evidence of how the measurements were taken. Small ponds with lengthy residence times I should think are more of an issue. I do think that warnings should be made obvious and it's not necessary in the case of eg Advocate to have to search for it.

 

[Atemas]

I very much hope that doesn’t include Nexgard, our default flea treatment.

This is what I use now after using a spot on since getting Red. I wouldn’t use anything (never did with Sky) but I had all that worry with Red earlier this year and her itching which I never discovered what it was all about. Don’t want to risk anything so Nexgard is now my poison of choice.

I think I take with a pinch of salt the accuracy of reports that all watercourses have been measured to have dangerous levels without more detailed evidence of how the measurements were taken. Small ponds with lengthy residence times I should think are more of an issue. I do think that warnings should be made obvious and it's not necessary in the case of eg Advocate to have to search for it.

Agree

 

[Lisa]

I use Bravecto with Simba but only in the summer months.

 

[Jacqui-S]

I use Bravecto with Simba but only in the summer months.

Me too. Twice a year, once in April/May again around August

 

[MellowYellow]

Ah, you all know what I think... Here I go again, banging on about the dangers of unnecessary tick and flea treatments...

I think the thing is that yes, in particular tick treatments are often necessary, especially if you live in an area that is tick infested, and where the ticks carry diseases. But customers are often advised by vets to use these treatments all year round, which really is ... ahem, overkill.

I don't use bravecto or any sort of tablet any more, and Merlin uses the Scalibor collar from April to July. We don't have a lot of water around where we live, and if he does go swimming or paddling then we take the collar off first, as it is well known to be poisonous to aquatic life.

I don't use any kind of flea or tick treatment on Poppy, since she reacts so badly to it and haven't done so since April 2018 - which was the very last time she had a seizure.

I do think it is great that this information is being shared more widely. Well done, Guardian!

*Gets back down off soapbox*

 

[M.F.]

I’m with @MellowYellow. Snowie gets no chemical flea, tick, or worm preventatives. I stopped when I realised they were giving him grand mal seizures. No seizures since stopping them, and he’s no longer on epilepsy meds. And he has no fleas!! If I see a tick, I remove it. I feed him crushed pumpkin seeds to protect against internal parasites.

The article doesn’t mention that your dog’s wee and poo will contain the chemicals, too. So it’s not just about swimming and bathing. Rain water will wash the wee and poo into the groundwater. And therefore the tablets are as much to blame as the spot ons. Some people flush their dog’s poo down the toilet.

And it doesn’t just affect the birds, insects, and aquatic life. It affects all of us. Without bees we run the risk to food security. The water we drink is more and more polluted.

 

[Stacia]

@MellowYellow, I stand firmly on the soapbox with you I don't believe it should be used routinely unless for good reason. @M.F. I am with you as well.

 

[Selina27]

@Jelinga @MellowYellow @MF I too join you on the soapbox

 

[snowbunny]

And I stand firmly on my soapbox of "I agree that one shouldn't medicate if not necessary but sometimes people hear that it's not necessary for one situation and think that applies to them when it actually doesn't, which could be awfully dangerous, and so the best thing to do is always take local advice"

 

[Jacqui-S]

I think that frequency of drug dosing is based on the time that is most likely to give continuous protection for absolutely everyone.
So like 100% will be covered if it's given every 3 months. But it might be 97% covered if given every 4 months and 90% if given every 6 months (figures plucked out the air for an imaginary drug).

I think an interesting example is shown by the change in approach to the use of contraceptive coils in women (sorry lads).
Mirena hormone coils are licensed for 5 years, if you got pregnant 5 years and 1 month after insertion then the manufacturer would say "tough". Since Covid19 popped up, the guidance says actually, they last for 6 years, so you can put off changing them for a year.
The 5 years is the minimum time that it will guarantee that in 100% of women it will work 100%. But 6 years will give virtually as good coverage (don't know the figures but from a very reputable source).

Drugs don't suddenly stop working. Bit like your air freshener lasting for 30 days too . And the feeding chart for dog foods on their bags - pinch of salt.
I probably wouldn't give Lilly wormer if it wasn't for puppies being in the house and her tendency to delight in "roadkill" consumption. But ticks are a bloomin' nuisance around here and where we walk, and Lymes is increasing in prevalence so I feel treatment is worth it.

I would be interested to know if there are any figures on excretion of oral treatments in stool and urine if anyone knows.

 

[snowbunny]

When we signed the papers for Nisha and Talía yesterday, part of that was agreeing to continue with their current plan, which is Advantix every month and Simparica 3 (oral tablet, fleas/ticks/mites) every three months, all year. That seems a little overkill, but I guess for the dogs living outdoors in a shelter they want the "belt and braces" approach.