Foul mouth complaint

[snowbunny]

OH's mum thinks BELLY & KNICKERS are swear words!

it's not very nice to say f**k

But why not? This is my question. Why? What makes it bad to say? So we've been taught that "it's bad", but why, why, why? What is it about the word that makes "fuck" worse than "fudge"? Why is "shit" worse than "poo"? Because we've been told so? That's not reason enough, surely?

 

[SwampDonkey]

What kids say doesn't really worry me. I hear them swear all the time. I walk Rory when the are leaving school you should hear them. If you think fucks upsetting you might well faint. Them kids are kids just being kids doing taboo things they are learning and experimenting being cheeky. If someone hadn't told them it was bad they wouldn't be doing it They are doing no harm they arent degrading themselves they are just young. There's not intent to upset or be nasty.
L whoses 8 was recently told by an older boy that she sucks her dad's cock. She was upset mostly by the intent and the nastiness as she couldn't quite grasp what was wrong. I do find that disturbing on many levels but no swear words were involved

 

[Aitch]

But why not? This is my question. Why? What makes it bad to say? So we've been taught that "it's bad", but why, why, why? What is it about the word that makes "fuck" worse than "fudge"? Why is "shit" worse than "poo"? Because we've been told so? That's not reason enough, surely?

My point exactly. Someone, somewhere decided that this word and that word are bad. Along comes the sheep in society all baaing that he/she is absolutely right and suddenly those words are taboo. They were probably in everyday usage before then.

 

[Charlie]

So we all know what "f**k means? So you would be happy with a child telling you to f**k off? Would you tell a Priest to f**k off if you didn't believe his religious views? "S**t is worse poo because of the way it's used, to be rude, attention seeking and vulgar. The reasons go on not to use certain words and yes I was told as a child they are rude and I believe this now because I am a grown up and have made my own decision that I have passed on to my children. It's up to them should they follow that advice. It's reason enough for me xx

P.S. I'm actually not a prude

 

[MellowYellow]

I think it’s not the words themselves that are rude, but the INTENTION behind them.

Why would it (excuse me here) be worse to say f**k, rather than bugger, for instance? I mean clearly it is, but it is only due to social acceptance, not logic - otherwise why would straightforward intercourse be worse than ... I can’t even write it, because goodness knows what searches MLF would turn up in!!

Or why is it ok to call someone a cockwomble, but not a pr**k?? You get my drift. The words in themselves mean nothing, they only describe bodily parts or functions, but if someone is saying them in a way that is intended to hurt or shock, then that is the issue, I feel.

I speak as the mother of a soldier, incidentally, who swears - well, like a trooper! So perhaps I have become more accepting...

 

[snowbunny]

If someone tells me to fuck off, that is rude and it is that intent to be rude that I would find unacceptable. It would be the same if they said, "Oh, just go and do one, you stupid woman". No swears, but the same intent to cause offence.

I've already said that I can feel an emotional reaction to the words, because I have been conditioned to do so. But that does not answer the question of "why are they bad?". Why did people tell me they were bad and pass that conditioning on to me? The answer so far is simply "because I've been told so".

I obviously don't have the responsibility of bringing up children, but I know that if I did, this sort of question would be important. I wouldn't be able to tell them that the words were bad without having a solid reason why. I would be able to tell them that it wasn't appropriate to use them in certain situations, because people might take offence to them, even if no offence was intended, in the same way we have to modulate our language in many other ways depending on the situation. It's no different to using "a telephone voice". But telling them that certain words are bad because that's what I've been told? It just doesn't hold water, and actually exacerbates the issue. Banning these words gives them power. If they were mainstream (as many have been historically before someone arbitrarily decided they were unacceptable), then they wouldn't have that shock factor. To go back to "joder" in Spanish - it means "fuck". You can say "jódete", meaning "fuck you". But it's all in the context as to whether the listener takes offence or not. Delivered without malice, it is simply another part of the vernacular.

 

[snowbunny]

f**k, rather than bugger

I can’t even write it, because goodness knows what searches MLF would turn up in!!

Well, I suppose if you're aiming for a certain subset of readership....

 

[SwampDonkey]

I've been told to fuck off many times by kids and adults I didn't exploded in flames or feel worried or particularly upset. Priests well they believe in original sin burning witches and up holding the patriarchy and hiding the churches sins so whilst I wouldn't go out my way to tell them to fuck off if they tried to tell me how to run my life fuck off would be the least of the things I would say to them. Id be just glad they could put me in a nunnery or burn me anymore. I really do not get what priest have to do with life use of language or what type of person I am or how much and one swears

 

[SwampDonkey]

I think it’s not the words themselves that are rude, but the INTENTION behind them.

Why would it (excuse me here) be worse to say f**k, rather than bugger, for instance? I mean clearly it is, but it is only due to social acceptance, not logic - otherwise why would straightforward intercourse be worse than ... I can’t even write it, because goodness knows what searches MLF would turn up in!!

Or why is it ok to call someone a cockwomble, but not a pr**k?? You get my drift. The words in themselves mean nothing, they only describe bodily parts or functions, but if someone is saying them in a way that is intended to hurt or shock, then that is the issue, I feel.

I speak as the mother of a soldier, incidentally, who swears - well, like a trooper! So perhaps I have become more accepting...

I often wonder why t**t has comedic value and is used but c**t is not when it's a much more fun sounding word. Never get that people nearly faint when the C bomb is dropped . Intent is the problem. I worked with many different types of people in different places and leaned not to judge by the use of language but by intent. I'm very accepting of people how they are

 

[Charlie]

Why use them at all that's my unanswered question? Why do we feel the need to use certain words, because it has an effect on what we are saying?

The 'C' word is a word I definitely can't stand. Disgusting.

 

[MellowYellow]

Why use them at all that's my unanswered question? Why do we feel the need to use certain words, because it has an effect on what we are saying?

The 'C' word is a word I definitely can't stand. Disgusting.

Well, that’s just the point of this discussion, Helen. It’s actually describing a vital and beautiful piece of anatomy... but the intent is to shock. If you can divorce the intent from the meaning, the word has no power to shock.

 

[snowbunny]

Why use them at all that's my unanswered question?

Because they are existing words. They are in the dictionary. They are a part of our rich and beautiful language. They have nuanced meanings in different contexts that other words don't give us. They allow us to add very particular emphasis or exclamation. And, when it comes down to it, there is no logical reason that I can ascertain that makes them any worse than "fish" or "potato".

The "why use them" question is the same as asking "why use a spatula, when a spoon will do a similar job?". Well, the spatula has been invented and does certain jobs better than a spoon. For other jobs, the spoon is better. But just because someone prefers a spoon to a spatula, it doesn't mean the spatula should be uninvented

 

[SwampDonkey]

I love the C word its historic interesting and a very feminine word.

 

[HAH]

Well, that’s just the point of this discussion, Helen. It’s actually describing a vital and beautiful piece of anatomy... but the intent is to shock. If you can divorce the intent from the meaning, the word has no power to shock.

Absolutely this - there’s a whole raft of people reclaiming c**t as a simple description of a beautiful thing, because (like it or not) many of our insulting words describe women (bitch, cow) or female genitalia (t**t) and there’s definitely a misogynist element to it.

I heard years ago that lots of our most ‘offensive' single syllable English swear words were from Old Norse, and the ‘civilising’ Anglo Saxons looked down on them as rough and for ill-educated people but apparently that's rubbish: Susie Dent: how English swear words went away from the holy and back to the shit again
I love that the Victorians thought the word 'trousers' was filthy, so replaced it with ‘inexpressibles’, ‘sit-upons’, and ‘round-me-houses’

 

[Charlie]

None of these words are 'beautiful' and why people need to use them for shock value is equally baffling to me. I feel I have let myself down if I swear and I don't want to feel like that so I try not too. We'll have to agree to disagree Over analysing makes my head spin xx

 

[Candy]

I am also interested in why certain words have been designated as 'bad'. However, as a nurse, particularly working with older people I did feel very strongly that I shouldn't use anything that could be thought of as a 'swear word' whilst at work and this became such a habit that I have found I rarely swear at all out loud.
However, when I worked at a Day Hospital for older people with mental health problems there was a lovely man who came to us twice a week, who I shall call Harold. Harold had Vascular Dementia and one of the problems this caused him was word finding difficulties. He found this very frustrating, and this would often swear as a result (understandable I feel). One day after lunch one of the nursing assistants told me that Harold had sworn at her when she took him his meal. She had asked him what he wanted to eat and he had replied 'Salad' when she took him his salad he sad "I don't want that f*****g sh**e!' The same thing happened the next time he was with us. I went to him and asked him if he maybe hadn't meant to ask for salad, perhaps he didn't like it? He said "I like salad, I just don't like this f*****g sh**e" I asked him to point to exactly what it was on his plate that he didn't like and he said "That f*****g round green sh**e with pips in it!"
Ever after that, Trevor and I always just had to refer to cucumber as "That f*****g round green sh**e with pips in it"

 

[snowbunny]

Ever after that, Trevor and I always just had to refer to cucumber as "That f*****g round green sh**e with pips in it"

I think I love you, @Candy

 

[SwampDonkey]

I worked with recovering stroke patients some of them swore because of their frustration and some swore because of their brain damage. I found it so human and in a way touching because I saw them in their rawness and was able to comfort them with s it's ok I get it.

 

[SwampDonkey]

I think I love you, @Candy

One of the things I remember from my father terminal illness was him shouting not the f**kin Gruffalo everytime I hear Gruffalo it makes me smile.

 

[snowbunny]

My sister is a paramedic and nurse, and is very tuned in to her elderly patients. She often talks about how they say certain things meaning something else. So @Candy's story, for example, where the man can't simply verbalise the single thing he doesn't like. Or the elderly person who is asking for their Mummy, because they're scared or in pain.
Words are so powerful, even when they're not the "right" words.