Help needed with too much barking

[Selina27]

Cassie rarely barked at all until she was about 4, but the last couple of years have seen some changes take place around where we live with new people working and living here which seems to have activated her defence mechanism, but it's become too much and I would like to do something about the situation.

She clearly knows the difference between existing people and new people by sound. One person brings their dog, a very well behaved Huntaway, but I think she reminds Cass of the GS which lived here before and attacked her as a youngster, and she is finding it unsettling.

Anyway, what I'm asking is how to go about helping Cass deal with the situation and prevent her upsetting herself. I would like to use my clicker but I'm unsure at what point to click. I vaguely understand the look and dismiss idea but I don't know how to time the click/reward.

I know others have had similar issues, so all ideas welcome!

 

[Cath]

Sorry Helen I can't help you mine don't bark at all. I could get murdered.

I think @Atemas may be able to help you. She had trouble with the dog next door upsetting Red.

 

[Atemas]

She had trouble with the dog next door upsetting Red.

Hi Helen. I can so understand Cassie and her reactions. I will try to help if I can. Yes we’ve had a horrible time with the dogs at the back of us and the woman who owns them. Even her voice can make Red react (and me - she’s loud and abrasive and sometimes swears) . However, we are winning through various means. In our situation Red was beyond training with a clicker.

How does Cassie react when she sees those dogs that make her bark? Is it just barking or does she physically react too? Is it seeing them or does she sense/pick up on sounds or smells when they are around?

 

[Parodius]

Barking is something I covered with my behaviourist recently, I’m a bit of a novice with this so not sure if it would be relevant in your situation but are you able to recreate whatever sound it is that’s triggering her? That’s where we are with Neo at the moment, I have a speaker set up on the windowsill playing car doors slamming for 10mins at a really low level so he doesn’t react to it and am gradually increasing the volume to ‘real life’ levels. Once he is ok with this I will look to introduce rewards when the sound is played so that eventually he will hopefully look to me when he hears something first for a snack rather than barking at it, well, that’s the theory anyway!

If you do need some sounds I recommend the bbc archives, they have a ridiculously long list of oddly specific sound effects (the car door slam I’m using is apparently a landrover!) as well as general ones like city centre traffic or people on a common. And they were free

 

[Atemas]

so that eventually he will hopefully look to me when he hears something first for a snack rather than barking at it, well, that’s the theory anyway!

Yes basically that’s been the basis of our approach with our problem

 

[Joy]

I'm inclined to suggest that a clicker isn't the thing to use in a situation like this, because a clicker marks a behaviour a dog has chosen to do deliberately, whereas Cassie's barking is an involuntary emotional response. I'd say when she barks feed treats as well as offering verbal reassurance and soothing strokes - you're not using treats as a reward but as a way of changing her emotional reaction. You're aiming for her to think 'sound of new people' = 'yummy food' , so that eventually 'sound of new people' = feeling happy. In the initial stages you don't wait for the barking to stop, you just feed. If she won't take treats then she is too aroused/upset, so a new plan would be needed.

 

[Selina27]

Thanks for your responses.

he will hopefully look to me when he hears something first for a snack rather than barking at it,

Haha yes, that's what I'm after !

does she sense/pick up on sounds or smells when they are around?

She doesn't have to see anyone, she just knows that there are what to her are, I guess, strangers in the camp about the place. Be they human or canine. I suppose it's sound or smell.

@Joy, I see what you mean about the clicker not being appropriate. I will try the approach you suggest, should I use high value rewards or her kibble?

I think this should work for people passing by, but sometimes if she can clearly see people or dogs in our car park area, if you recall the lay out, she can get quite agitated.

I will see how we get on.

 

[Joy]

I think you probably need to start with high value treats and then when she gets to the stage of noticing the people but looking to you instead of barking you could start to feed lower value. I think if you know someone is in your car park area I would deliberately take her out to your garden (on lead) with treats and stream them into her mouth initially, until you start to get the 'look-at-them - look-back-to-you-for-treat' reaction.

I imagine that although these are new people and dogs, they are the same ones returning (rather than members of the general public) , so I wonder if you could arrange to introduce Cassie to them at a distance from her own home?

 

[Atemas]

take her out to your garden (on lead) with treats

To break the cycle we had got into with Red and the dogs behind the fence, I initially used the lead every time we went out. This has been crucial and I still use it first thing in the morning (as I never know if the dogs are out and I got fed up with starting the day with Red getting upset, barking and flying at the fence and me tense at starting the day that way). This has ’taught’ her to look to me instead of reacting and she knows she’ll get a treat. In addition we have spent months and months and months of quietly and calmly reassuring her, physically gently holding her, stroking her, diverting her, praising her, discouraging the barking (we do say ‘no barking’ which I know not everyone agrees with but it has worked very well for us). She’s not a barker so we discourage barking. It is all paying off as we can have the garden doors all open and she’s choosing to come and go quietly (there is the odd blip but we expect that). Sorry if this is anecdotal Helen - please disregard if you want - really trying to say (badly) you can win this one (with @Joy’s suggestions) but it will probably take time and much effort but it will pay dividends in the long run

 

[Emily_Babbelhund]

Sorry Helen I can't help you mine don't bark at all. I could get murdered.

Yeah, that's Carbon too - in the house. "You go look and see who is trying to break in, because my life is too precious to waste" is kind of Carbon's attitude.

However, we have had issues with him barking and/or being aggressive to other dogs while out on leash. I'm happy to say that issue is 98% solved. The other 2% is if the other dog goes for him first. He still can't shrug that off and has to be all macho. Ugh. But hey, progress.

eventually he will hopefully look to me when he hears something first for a snack rather than barking at it, well, that’s the theory anyway!

This is what we did. See another dog? Treat! Turn away from another dog for even one second? Mark and treat! Now he just looks at the other dog and then right back to me for a treat. I'll be carrying a treat pouch with me until he's ancient, I just know it.

But I'm not sure how that would work with the home barking unless you could maybe recruit some people to come to your house and practice?

 

[Stacia]

If Rourke barks I go and see what he is barking at, tell him all is fine and thank you for telling me and he settles down. I am often grateful for his barks as I don’t always hear the door bell.

 

[Selina27]

I imagine that although these are new people and dogs, they are the same ones returning (rather than members of the general public) , so I wonder if you could arrange to introduce Cassie to them at a distance from her own home?

Yes, the same people and just one dog. It doesn't seem to make any difference to meet them, which she has in the main, it's the fact that they are close to our house, going about their work. It is really noticeable that those that have been here since her puppy days don't arouse any response.
With dogs, even those she knows, she dislikes them being just outside the garden or anywhere near the gate. It's a boundary after all.

It's quite alright for any or all to actually enter the garden

So here we are all set with a frankfurter sausages cut up ready -- and there's not a soul about

 

[Selina27]

tell him all is fine and thank you for telling me

Yeah, this is my approach, but some days it can get too much, and actually it's upsetting her, so I need to do something about it.

 

[Selina27]

Sorry if this is anecdotal Helen - please disregard if you want - really trying to say (badly) you can win this one (with @Joy’s suggestions) but it will probably take time

It's fine Alison, no two situations are the same are they? But the principle is, it's always good to hear others experiences.