Lead Aggression

[David]

Poppy has always, since she came to us, had a tendency to lunge at and growl at other dogs if she and they are on lead and pass each other even on opposite sides of the street. Since I've been limiting her to lead walks after her spay last Wednesday it's come really to the fore and needs dealing with before it becomes a big deeply engrained problem. Today I started to address this by making her sit when we saw a dog on lead coming, putting myself between her and the dog and making her look at me and treating as she did it until the other dog had passed. It seemed to work but are there any other strategies that I can have a look at do you know? I think the ideal would be to find a few stooges to set up scenarios with and do a few passes gradually reducing the separation.

 

[Joy]

I'm inclined to think that asking Poppy to sit in this situation could be counter-productive. If she only reacts like this when on lead then it would seem that when off lead she feels confident that she can get away from the other dog if she wants to, so making her sit or stand still as the other dog passes is likely to be quite stressful for her. I would do the putting yourself between Poppy and the other dog and offer treats (to change her emotional response) but keep moving or do an about-turn and head in another direction.

 

[Anne123]

Finn always have had this on lead. I trained him with LAT….Perhaps you could try this? Also the u turn, not only when we we encounter another dog, but also when walking without seeing another dog. Finn is so smart, and I think your Poppy is as well. So when at first I did the LAT it was effective, but later he knew that when I did LAT he started looking around where the other dog or cat for that matter was….

 

[edzbird]

Coco suffers from this too. I have not managed to crack it. He's had years of sitting and treating because I could not keep him walking for fear of being pulled over ( a probable cert). I now walk him on a Gentle Leader and no longer fear the fall, but he still reacts like a loon.

 

[Selina27]

I think Alison @Atemas posted about a similar issue with Red a while back. Fiona started a thread about the AB game in the Training Toolbox section, you might find that helpful David.

 

[Loraseal]

We are trying the engage/ disengage but it really depends if it is a known or unknown dog. The key with Hunter is to keep on moving. Ready steady go is my best distraction technique at the moment. I also do the A to B and practice to make our walks fun. Bump and touch is used a lot just to keep it fun during the walk and to get him engaged with me and not other dogs. I know I get a few strange looks when out and about but it help keeps his emotions positive.

 

[Granca]

Wispa does this too, although she barks rather than growls. Lately she’s been a bit more calm, but she’ll be 10 in November! She doesn’t really like dogs (or some people) who look at her when she’s on her lead, especially if they have distinctive eyes. I tried LAT, but found that using a firm ‘walk on’ and encouraging her with treats has been more effective. If it’s been in an awkward place I either move her away and ask her to sit until the other dog has passed, or turn round and take her away, distracting her.

Perhaps the ‘walk on’ command has been most effective because it’s firm and positive. It’s all too easy to think the worst when another dog approaches and then she probably senses my anxiety and goes into protective mode.

 

[Atemas]

about a similar issue with Red a while back.

Yes I did have a problem with Red and the A to B has been great. I really recommend it. The thread started by @snowbunny is in the Training Toolbox. I never knew why Red reacted to some dogs and not others and I still don‘t. It still happens but not as much and not as forceful. I find carrying on walking at a good pace in the direction we are going and gently saying ‘This way, this way’ stops her reacting and I don‘t treat her anymore. If I sense she’s going to react, I lower my hands down the lead so she’s closer to me.

 

[David]

Thanks everyone - some good stuff and I've read the Snowbunny thread. I'll start application on this morning's walk and see how we get on. (The Poppy Dog is currently hurling a tennis ball across the room and then chasing after it!)

 

[David]

Well that went much better than expected. Slack lead, pocket full of kibble (her evening meal is going to be a bit lighter than usual) and much vigorous "Poppy sit" and "Poppy close" (close by tradition because I poisoned heel with Lady and changed the word to close) and "Poppy good girl!" and we successfully passed or sat while other dogs passed without lunging. Just two partial failures out of 5 dog meetings and both partials were recovered (Oh, and one jogger - she usually ignores them but she was taking a "focused" interest in this one so we did the business while she passed) plus one successful walk passed the cattle at the field gate.

Clearly a work in progress but the lunging is clearly fixable and it looks like it will be relatively straight forward.

As a noticeable spin-off she walked exactly to heel all the way home on the streets when we'd come off the farm land. I think there might be another message there as well. She needs focussing and engaging with pretty much all the time when she's on the lead. She failed as a sniffer dog because of lapses in concentration and getting more interested in anything but the job in hand. I could see that this morning and it took an effort to engage her but once I'd managed that she seemed to lock on more to my voice and me rather than everything else. I found it a most interesting exercise.

The other dog walkers were quite amused as well when I explained what I was doing while vigorously good girling and treating as they walked by.

 

[jazzmynn]

I struggle constantly with this with Ariel, tried numerous different thing, and can’t seem to break it. Off leash, she’s an absolute joy. I think she’s over eager to say hi and play. I can’t continue to treat her as, even though she’s small, I need both hands to keep her by me. if I u turn, I end up basically dragging her down the road, while she’s behind me looking back. We both look like total fools.

 

[snowbunny]

if I u turn, I end up basically dragging her down the road, while she’s behind me looking back. We both look like total fools.

If you move your left hand down the leash until it's just above the collar, she can't do this. There's an old mantra from traditional training, but which works here, which is "control the head, control the dog". It also makes it a whole lot less "draggy", and far easier on the dog. Just be sure to practice it a lot outside of the reactive situations so that the dog knows what to expect when you assume that position.

 

[jazzmynn]

If you move your left hand down the leash until it's just above the collar, she can't do this. There's an old mantra from traditional training, but which works here, which is "control the head, control the dog". It also makes it a whole lot less "draggy", and far easier on the dog. Just be sure to practice it a lot outside of the reactive situations so that the dog knows what to expect when you assume that position.

Thank you.

 

[David]

If you move your left hand down the leash until it's just above the collar, she can't do this.

I meet a guy with two collie type dogs most mornings and they are horrible. They both lunge on the lead and attack with lips raised and teeth bared. So the treating and walking has been working fine but I think his dogs are the exception to the rule. Even moving my hand down the lead couldn't hold Poppy who to be fair was just trying to defend herself. I'm frankly just about not strong enough to hold her these days so in desperation I asked him if he could move on which of course in hindsight just made things worse. I ended up telling him I thought his dogs were horrible - not my best moment. I think I may have to change my morning walk to avoid him.

Apart from that the new strategy is working well, and as Fiona says, if you can get control of the dogs head - in this case catch her attention with treats - you are pretty much home and dry.

 

[Atemas]

Even moving my hand down the lead couldn't hold Poppy who to be fair was just trying to defend herself. I'm frankly just about not strong enough to hold her these days so in desperation I asked him if he could move on which of course in hindsight just made things worse. I ended up telling him I thought his dogs were horrible - not my best moment. I think I may have to change my morning walk to avoid him.

Such a shame if you have to change your walk. I hate it when dog owners let their dogs behave that way

 

[Anne123]

I meet a guy with two collie type dogs most mornings and they are horrible. They both lunge on the lead and attack with lips raised and teeth bared. So the treating and walking has been working fine but I think his dogs are the exception to the rule. Even moving my hand down the lead couldn't hold Poppy who to be fair was just trying to defend herself. I'm frankly just about not strong enough to hold her these days so in desperation I asked him if he could move on which of course in hindsight just made things worse. I ended up telling him I thought his dogs were horrible - not my best moment. I think I may have to change my morning walk to avoid him.

Apart from that the new strategy is working well, and as Fiona says, if you can get control of the dogs head - in this case catch her attention with treats - you are pretty much home and dry.

I have the same with 2 Australian Sheppard dogs. The owner can’t get hold of them both. The start barking and lunging as soon as they see Finn. And Finn react immediately. They walk passed our house, so nothing to avoid. The owner tends to sit opposite our house to feed his dogs by hand, otherwise they won’t eat…..
Once I came out of our house with the green garbage and I hadn’t seen them. Finn did and as he was on leash he pulled me over as I was taken by surprise. The owner of the two dogs stand still and watched. I yelled at him to walk along instead of watching my fall and struggle to get Finn back again as he was off leash (lead was slipped out of my hands during my fall..)…When I see them coming I do a u turn, but I can’t when taken by surprise

 

[Cath]

I had to change the time I went for a walk with my two. There is a man who walks his dog off lead and told me that his dog doesn't like other dogs or people. When I saw him coming onto the field, I shouted at him to get his dog on a lead. I had to stand in front of his dog, who came running across the field at me , Fred and Annie. He got hold of his dog and put it on a lead., (my two were on their leads). I can't enjoy walking my two worrying about if they are going to turn up, so I go early.

 

[Oberon]

Doing a fab job, David.

I wonder if she’s not had much experience with dogs that don’t look like Labradors..?

 

[David]

I wonder if she’s not had much experience with dogs that don’t look like Labradors..?

That may be true. She's supposed to have been thoroughly socialised with both people, children and dogs but I think the reality is she's only met Labs, springers and GSDs. She has real issues with the latter and having seen quite a few of Surrey Police's GSDs I'm not surprised by that. . She's actually making much better progress than I thought. I think what helps is she's actually quite bright - and I'm not just saying that because she's our dog. She picks new stuff up very quickly and usually by the second or third time of trying max so far. So this morning, for example, we met several people and she didn't jump up (that's another thing we've been working on), and several dogs without problems although I was treating and distracting like a mad thing. In fact we met a chap with two boxers, and I was able to stand and chat with him while Poppy stood between the two dogs just fine for quite a while before I had to move on because she decided she wanted a bit of boisterous play.

Anyway I'm lucky it all seems to be becoming a none problem although I think it will be a while yet before I can cut down on shovelling treats into her.

 

[MellowYellow]

Anyway I'm lucky it all seems to be becoming a none problem although I think it will be a while yet before I can cut down on shovelling treats into her.

Yeah, good luck with that one. My Poppy is nine and a half... and whenever she sees a stranger or a dog she runs to me, walks past them to heel, and then turns to me with a 'there, see how good I am? WHERE'S MY TREAT?' demand...