Nisha and Talía (Negreta and Lulú).... a journey.

[kateincornwall]

Just beautiful xx

 

[Cath]

Loved it when she gave you a face wash and wag her tail

 

[Stacia]

Talia is getting to enjoy the stroking and Nisha is getting braver and braver. How wonderful to see them develop.

 

[snowbunny]

Oh, and Talia licked J's hand earlier, too!! Yay!!

It is hard not to reach out to them and to just let them do all the work. When they were being "trapped" at the shelter to bring back, I stroked Talia to try to calm her and she was locked rigid, terrified. There was no way that she would have just got used to it by forcing her into the situation. I was lamenting with my sister at that time, "If only we could talk to them and explain", but the more I've thought about that, the more I don't think it's really relevant. When you look at traumatised children, you may have common language, but that doesn't mean they trust you or will accept your touch, however much you tell them they should trust you. And I can imagine how telling them what they should do puts on those layers of extra stress in very much the same way that trying to force things with these two ladies would do.

Trust isn't black and white. It's not that they do or they don't. There is a world of grey in between, and we're entering that grey with both of these girls now. Yes, Talia is gaining trust in certain situations (which is WONDERFUL), but she's a long way from being at a place where she would trust me to give her a thorough checking over, and definitely not to put her trust in me while a stranger did the same. I don't say that to be negative in any way, because I'm hugely impressed with how well they are both doing, just that I'm not counting my chickens and know there will be plenty of difficult times ahead.

 

[HAH]

Trust isn't black and white. It's not that they do or they don't. There is a world of grey in between, and we're entering that grey with both of these girls now.

This is so true, and also the trust is dynamic and sometimes stronger and sometimes weaker, even if (hopefully) the trend is in one direction.
I also love what you say about language and communication. We had a similar conversation about Kipper the other day, and OH made the point that actually communicating without common words can be a lot clearer as you have to look at everything you’re doing. So often verbal language befuddles a situation or as you say, adds layers of unhelpful complexity.

 

[Emily_Babbelhund]

When you look at traumatised children, you may have common language, but that doesn't mean they trust you or will accept your touch, however much you tell them they should trust you.

Or traumatised adults. Because of past experiences in hospitals, I can lose all sense and turn into a wild thing under certain medical circumstances. I have jumped off of operating tables and run out into car parks. I explain this to medical staff beforehand just in case it happens, even though I do everything to make sure it doesn't. They rarely believe me before, they always believe me afterwards and then the real work begins. Most times it just means quick knock out drugs for expedience's sake, but sometimes people take the time to tame me (for lack of a better word). This is what you're doing with the girls, and it takes a very special person to do it.

Just as you say, learning/listening can't happen during the wild bit when the brain is screaming, "Run!". However intent matters - by that I mean the intent of the person introducing whatever is new/scary/challenging. I imagine dogs are as good or better than us at judging human intent. When the wild panic is over and you can go back to think about what happened, intent makes a big difference in how you digest it: that's where the trust can build and progress happens.

I see your girls as testing themselves with you as much as they can, then retreating to have a think about it, learn and come back bolder. What wonderful ladies (all three of you).

 

[edzbird]

Beautiful, beautiful. I am SO glad you could take them both together, this is so goon for Nisha. My heart is bursting for you all.

 

[snowbunny]

Or traumatised adults.

I did think about adults with PTSD when I wrote that, but I didn’t feel qualified to mention it. Thank you for sharing your insights although I’m so sorry you have to suffer that

I see your girls as testing themselves with you as much as they can, then retreating to have a think about it, learn and come back bolder.

I really do think they’re processing in their down time. For Nisha it’s still more difficult because she’s not getting anything pleasurable out of getting close to me - and I’m not prepared to use food to reinforce this - whereas at least Talia is getting the strokes and social interaction which she clearly loves.

I keep telling Nisha I can’t wait to give her magnificent ears a scritch. I do hope she enjoys an ear rub!!

 

[Candy]

I did think about adults with PTSD when I wrote that, but I didn’t feel qualified to mention it. Thank you for sharing your insights although I’m so sorry you have to suffer that




I really do think they’re processing in their down time. For Nisha it’s still more difficult because she’s not getting anything pleasurable out of getting close to me - and I’m not prepared to use food to reinforce this - whereas at least Talia is getting the strokes and social interaction which she clearly loves.

I keep telling Nisha I can’t wait to give her magnificent ears a scritch. I do hope she enjoys an ear rub!!

They are certainly very scritchable ears!

 

[Emily_Babbelhund]

I did think about adults with PTSD when I wrote that, but I didn’t feel qualified to mention it. Thank you for sharing your insights although I’m so sorry you have to suffer that

Thank you. But there ARE upsides, as strange as it sounds. With all my travels, some of the side effects of the PTSD like my hyperawareness and hyperplanning (not a word, but you get it) do a lot - I think - to keep me safer. I like to call them my superpowers. It could be similar with your girls: their 'skills' could have kept them safer and still around for when their real chance to learn to let down their guard came around, with you and J.

 

[SwampDonkey]

My therapist tells my I'm hyperaware. Seems normal to me now. It's a double edged sword keeps me safe but is mentally and physically tiring. I expect N&T are feeling a bit exhausted at the moment. It's hard to stop that pattern at least you are offered both girlies an opportunity.

 

[snowbunny]

Bonus footage watching Nisha Noo more:

Bonus bonus bonus! | As a bonus, here are some extra clips from yesterday afternoon. Here you can see some of the stuff I had mentioned earlier with Nisha. Talia has been the... | By Courage Doesn't Always Roar - Facebook

As a bonus, here are some extra clips from yesterday afternoon. Here you can see some of the stuff I had mentioned earlier with Nisha. Talia has been the...

fb.watch

 

[Cath]

Oh Fiona how they are coming along, it must make your heart sing

 

[Emily_Babbelhund]

Talia's waggy little stump tail!

And Nisha's starting to crack...you can just see how much she wants to get in on that scritching action and just can't quite get there yet.

 

[M.F.]

Amazing difference!!

What are they doing when you’re not there? Are they lying around relaxed, or hyper aware? (That’s assuming you have a video setup to record in your absence?)

 

[snowbunny]

What are they doing when you’re not there? Are they lying around relaxed, or hyper aware? (That’s assuming you have a video setup to record in your absence?)

Oh, they're only a few tens of metres away from the house, so I know precisely what they're doing, I can see from my window and hear when they are in full voice

They mostly chill out on their sofa, or lay on one of the beds outside. They might have a go on the snuffle mat to find bits that they missed previously. Dig the odd hole (one of them is a champion hole digger, although I'm not sure which one as I've never seen them going at it). Mostly they chill. If J is working anywhere in sight, Nisha will bark at him. On occasion, Talia will start baying/howling (I think there might be some bloodhound in the mix). But mostly they chill out like normal dogs.

Between us, we visit them six or seven times a day, and J is always milling about, so the only times they're really alone are when we're out walking the dogs, and at night.

They sleep through the night pretty well, although Talia sometimes does wake up for a good howl in the early hours. I don't think they're cold, as we've insulated the indoors dens where they go to sleep, but I have a new double duvet on order for each of them and two hot water bottles each, just in case.

 

[Stacia]

Bonus footage watching Nisha Noo more:

Bonus bonus bonus! | As a bonus, here are some extra clips from yesterday afternoon. Here you can see some of the stuff I had mentioned earlier with Nisha. Talia has been the... | By Courage Doesn't Always Roar - Facebook

As a bonus, here are some extra clips from yesterday afternoon. Here you can see some of the stuff I had mentioned earlier with Nisha. Talia has been the...

fb.watch

I watched the video with the sound off so that I could see Nisha's body language, she looks as if she wants to approach you but at the moment just cannot make the final movement. It is most encouraging though as she has made major steps since the first video.

 

[jazzmynn]

They both have a little bounce in their step now! What great progress all of you have made!

 

[Emily_Babbelhund]

but I have a new double duvet on order for each of them and two hot water bottles each,

You know these Spanish shelter dogs HAVE to have their fluffy warm stuff once they find their forever homes.

"I cannot survive without at least THREE pillows of my own. If I do not have them, I sleep on ML's head in protest!" - Carbon

 

[Cath]

How are the girls @snowbunny