Jacqui-S
Moderator
- Location
- Fife, Scotland
Fantastic Kate.
So happy for you x
So happy for you x
Otter's Journey....
- Thread starter Beanwood
- Start date
Lisa
Moderator
- Location
- Alberta, Canada
Sounds like good steps in the right direction! Well done, Otter! 
- Location
- Andorra and Spain
Aw, she looks lovely and relaxed! So nice to see.
When you mention LAD, is that from Bogeyman? It looks more like LAT to me. With LAD you don’t generally use a reinforcer because you’re not working on an operant behaviour. Reinforcers can get in the way of LAD because the dog will look away to earn the reinforcer, or because of the pattern of the game, rather than because they are truly dismissing. I think Amy covers that in the lecture? I like to think more about LAD being information for me about the dog’s emotional state rather than CC, and I don’t want to muddy that information-gathering with operant conditioning.
LAT on the other hand is all about the pattern, CC and OC. You’re getting a conditioned response of turning away from a trigger and the CC through doing it with high repetition in a low-threat environment.
When you mention LAD, is that from Bogeyman? It looks more like LAT to me. With LAD you don’t generally use a reinforcer because you’re not working on an operant behaviour. Reinforcers can get in the way of LAD because the dog will look away to earn the reinforcer, or because of the pattern of the game, rather than because they are truly dismissing. I think Amy covers that in the lecture? I like to think more about LAD being information for me about the dog’s emotional state rather than CC, and I don’t want to muddy that information-gathering with operant conditioning.
LAT on the other hand is all about the pattern, CC and OC. You’re getting a conditioned response of turning away from a trigger and the CC through doing it with high repetition in a low-threat environment.
Emily_Babbelhund
Mama Red HOT Pepper
- Location
- Regensburg, Germany
That's such huge progress to be able to relax and have some doggie fun at your mother's house. Well done you and well done Harry! 
Side note: I really like that foot mat. Would be very good for training paw targeting with Carbon...
Side note: I really like that foot mat. Would be very good for training paw targeting with Carbon...
Good girl Otter, well done all of you!
- Location
- Argyll & Bute, Scotland
Beanwood
Administrator
@Charlie LAD is a behaviour modification training method, it stands for "Look and Dismiss". A very useful method for Otter as she is a "sit and suss it out kind of dog" Giving Otter time and space to absorb a novel or slightly unusual situation/ encourages her natural method of processing the world. I also think it helps with confidence, when you can work through something on your own, and mentally shrug your shoulders it think it adds a bit more emotional resilience. 
With LAD, the principal is the dog works through the environment to a point where it is not causing any concern, processing the information - in Otters case - the end of the driveway. Or earlier in the week, there was a herd of heifers fairly close to the driveway fence. When the look becomes a glance or observation that is Otter "dismissing" the object. I gave her space, we backed up a bit until I was happy that she was comfortable, then just hung out and observed them.
A useful link @Charlie Play as Therapy this touches on some of the training methods by by Amy Cook (phD) and also mentions LAD.
@snowbunny, yes I am enrolled on the "Dealing with the Bogeyman" (Amy Cook) and "Feelings Change" (Nancy Tucker). I am only partway through Amy's course, and am in the "management of our environment" stage with Nancy's course, as well as working on the mechanics of pairing neutral stimuli with reinforcement. All new stuff for me, and a steep learning curve! I am utilising the latter course more for working with Otters fear of approaching strangers, as this is the only real anxiety we see, although getting into the car is difficult and quite possibly linked to the "stranger fear". I am probably not using LAD quite by the book, as Otter doesn't embrace different things quite like Benson (read "bombproof") it seems quite a good way of working with her. I do reinforce her check-ins though, and thinking about it, might be an idea to review when and why I do that. It has proved useful in our loose lead walking...hmmmm....
Classical counter-conditioning with Otter. In order for this to work, we have had to think about how to avoid the "Scary situation" in the first place, to avoid reinforcing the fear, and the risk of generalisation. When working with classical CC, this has to be on our terms, as we are working on meeting people/strangers, we can't just have people or even guests arriving when we are not expecting them. Now if we were CC with a dog who is scared of being groomed, that is a fairly simple job - keep the clippers hidden. For Otter this means...
So, photo! This is Otter last night, just love her cheeky expression.....are we hitting adolescence? hmmmm? She is 7 months old today!
With LAD, the principal is the dog works through the environment to a point where it is not causing any concern, processing the information - in Otters case - the end of the driveway. Or earlier in the week, there was a herd of heifers fairly close to the driveway fence. When the look becomes a glance or observation that is Otter "dismissing" the object. I gave her space, we backed up a bit until I was happy that she was comfortable, then just hung out and observed them.
A useful link @Charlie Play as Therapy this touches on some of the training methods by by Amy Cook (phD) and also mentions LAD.
@snowbunny, yes I am enrolled on the "Dealing with the Bogeyman" (Amy Cook) and "Feelings Change" (Nancy Tucker). I am only partway through Amy's course, and am in the "management of our environment" stage with Nancy's course, as well as working on the mechanics of pairing neutral stimuli with reinforcement. All new stuff for me, and a steep learning curve! I am utilising the latter course more for working with Otters fear of approaching strangers, as this is the only real anxiety we see, although getting into the car is difficult and quite possibly linked to the "stranger fear". I am probably not using LAD quite by the book, as Otter doesn't embrace different things quite like Benson (read "bombproof") it seems quite a good way of working with her. I do reinforce her check-ins though, and thinking about it, might be an idea to review when and why I do that. It has proved useful in our loose lead walking...hmmmm....
Classical counter-conditioning with Otter. In order for this to work, we have had to think about how to avoid the "Scary situation" in the first place, to avoid reinforcing the fear, and the risk of generalisation. When working with classical CC, this has to be on our terms, as we are working on meeting people/strangers, we can't just have people or even guests arriving when we are not expecting them. Now if we were CC with a dog who is scared of being groomed, that is a fairly simple job - keep the clippers hidden. For Otter this means...
- Relocate the letterbox to end of drive.
- A doorbell with soft tone (therefore not associated with someone being at the door)
- A parcel drop so couriers don't knock on the door
- Asking our neighbours to text/call if they are coming round - ignore us and not make eye contact if they see us walking.
So, photo! This is Otter last night, just love her cheeky expression.....are we hitting adolescence? hmmmm? She is 7 months old today!
- Location
- Argyll & Bute, Scotland
xx
Emily_Babbelhund
Mama Red HOT Pepper
- Location
- Regensburg, Germany
What a great photo - the expression on her face and her amazing eyes. So captivating that at first I didn't even notice the chewed up ??? that she is looking at!
Dustpan. A puppy classicWhat a great photo - the expression on her face and her amazing eyes. So captivating that at first I didn't even notice the chewed up ??? that she is looking at!
We don't have stuff like that in our house any more. You live and learn
Beanwood
Administrator
It's actually a serving slice thingyDustpan. A puppy classic
. I don't actually what's happened but all sorts of choccy nortiness is emerging.. Benson LOVES it! Tonight after we had our tea, I realise that both Benson and Otter are missing...oops!!! They are both in the kitchen, Otter zooming around the worktops, Benson busy with empty ice-cream pot! I should be annoyed but kinda enjoying this refreshing, cheeky side of her.Ooh, far more fun - for serving deep slices of things?It's actually a serving slice thingy
Neither did I - I’ve just checked, now Emily’s mentioned it! I was just captivated by her lovely expression!So captivating that at first I didn't even notice the chewed up ??? that she is looking at!
Beanwood
Administrator
11 weeks PO - and 77 days
77 days means that according to models that project growth, plus clinical data looking specifically at stifle growth plate closure in labradors, we are at 80% time to final TPA (Tibial Plateau Angle). This is a conservative estimate as one of the most accurate models was based on data with male labradors. Otter is definitely in a growth spurt now, so hoping it is enough! Otter is still on lead walks though, which is frustrating for her. So I do drop the lead when she is absorbed in a bit of hunting, we are working on the stop whistle, tuggy or just an animated version of the hand touch. ( Although see the video later in this post!!
)
Yesterday I took Otter to rehab. I was a unsure if the effort to get her in the car, was worth the benefit of physio, or bearing in mind Otters perception of vets, would it be worth it at all? After mulling this over, I decided to give it a go. We have been working a lot Otter with our rehab vet, not having treatment, but just being there under no pressure. I have a huge respect for her knowledge, she can literally just look at a dog walking and give a very accurate diagnosis. Indeed she diagnosed the partial tear in the first place.
We turn up early, luckily our vet sees one patient at a time, and you wait in the car if another dog is having treatment. This is great because you know you will never "bump" into people unexpectedly. Otter explodes out of the car, full of beans and excited. She drags me towards the door, through the door and at that point I let go of the lead. Well, Tamsin is doing her best to ignore Otter, who did the complete opposite of what we both expected and demanded attention by licking her hand combined with a full body wag! Then she did some serious exploring, grabbing toys and "stuff", then when she had calmed down a bit, I did some walking up and down. Her walking now is actually very good, the external rotation seems less.
Otter is weighed, so at 7 months old she is 23.3kg. A weight gain of 1kg in the last week, and almost 2kgs in the last fortnight.
OK...next it is the water tank. These huge tanks make a fair bit of noise, hissing, banging, clanging when the get started. So it's back to basics. All on Otters terms. Otter kicks it off by running happily through the tank, one end to another. She gets lots of praise, and absolutely no pressure at all. Her little face is bright, and her body is still in full body wag. The next step is to close one end while she is still in the tank, we drop treats so Otter won' t run full tilt and bang into the glass. Well that goes well, and no problem. Otter slows down to examine the strange glass wall, then we encourage her out and see if she will then enter the tank on her own (after a short break..) Which to our surprise, she does. Tamsin enters the tank, and we play running between her legs, this is a game that Otter loves. At this point, for the first time, she is able to get "hands on". Otter is enjoying wriggling Tamsin is gently feeling her hips, back and knees. This is really incredible progress! Then she gets out leaving Otter in the tank playing "hunt the treats". We decide as Otter is feeling brave to fill the tank with just a little water, at the point the tank does make a lot of noise, so we make sure this is as fun as possible by filling the tank with toys and treats. Otter is started to get a little unsure, but settles happily into splashing around and sticking her whole head in the water diving for biscuits. Tamsin gets back in and starts the treadmill, but at that point we stop as the floor moving was a bit disconcerting. All in all though a real success! Phew!!
77 days means that according to models that project growth, plus clinical data looking specifically at stifle growth plate closure in labradors, we are at 80% time to final TPA (Tibial Plateau Angle). This is a conservative estimate as one of the most accurate models was based on data with male labradors. Otter is definitely in a growth spurt now, so hoping it is enough! Otter is still on lead walks though, which is frustrating for her. So I do drop the lead when she is absorbed in a bit of hunting, we are working on the stop whistle, tuggy or just an animated version of the hand touch. ( Although see the video later in this post!!
)Yesterday I took Otter to rehab. I was a unsure if the effort to get her in the car, was worth the benefit of physio, or bearing in mind Otters perception of vets, would it be worth it at all? After mulling this over, I decided to give it a go. We have been working a lot Otter with our rehab vet, not having treatment, but just being there under no pressure. I have a huge respect for her knowledge, she can literally just look at a dog walking and give a very accurate diagnosis. Indeed she diagnosed the partial tear in the first place.
We turn up early, luckily our vet sees one patient at a time, and you wait in the car if another dog is having treatment. This is great because you know you will never "bump" into people unexpectedly. Otter explodes out of the car, full of beans and excited. She drags me towards the door, through the door and at that point I let go of the lead. Well, Tamsin is doing her best to ignore Otter, who did the complete opposite of what we both expected and demanded attention by licking her hand combined with a full body wag! Then she did some serious exploring, grabbing toys and "stuff", then when she had calmed down a bit, I did some walking up and down. Her walking now is actually very good, the external rotation seems less.
Otter is weighed, so at 7 months old she is 23.3kg. A weight gain of 1kg in the last week, and almost 2kgs in the last fortnight.
OK...next it is the water tank. These huge tanks make a fair bit of noise, hissing, banging, clanging when the get started. So it's back to basics. All on Otters terms. Otter kicks it off by running happily through the tank, one end to another. She gets lots of praise, and absolutely no pressure at all. Her little face is bright, and her body is still in full body wag. The next step is to close one end while she is still in the tank, we drop treats so Otter won' t run full tilt and bang into the glass. Well that goes well, and no problem. Otter slows down to examine the strange glass wall, then we encourage her out and see if she will then enter the tank on her own (after a short break..) Which to our surprise, she does. Tamsin enters the tank, and we play running between her legs, this is a game that Otter loves. At this point, for the first time, she is able to get "hands on". Otter is enjoying wriggling Tamsin is gently feeling her hips, back and knees. This is really incredible progress! Then she gets out leaving Otter in the tank playing "hunt the treats". We decide as Otter is feeling brave to fill the tank with just a little water, at the point the tank does make a lot of noise, so we make sure this is as fun as possible by filling the tank with toys and treats. Otter is started to get a little unsure, but settles happily into splashing around and sticking her whole head in the water diving for biscuits
. Tamsin gets back in and starts the treadmill, but at that point we stop as the floor moving was a bit disconcerting. All in all though a real success! Phew!!
- Location
- Malvern Worcestershire
All sounds so very promising.
Beanwood
Administrator
Oh yes, so lucky! She is based literally down the road, just 5 mins. I have been going there for about 18 months? Have seen real improvements in both Casper and Benson.
About Freedom Vet Rehab
Jacqui-S
Moderator
- Location
- Fife, Scotland
Wow!
Well done Otter!
Well done Otter!