Poppy - Update 26/1/22

David

Moderator
Staff member
We've already had a couple of one-to-ones with the trainer, but today we entered Puppy Class!! Two other black lab girls - one aged around 1 year and the other around 15 months. They had already had several puppy sessions. The two other dogs were very petite compared to Poppy (about half her size) and one of them in particular was very squidgy just like a real puppy and rolled over at the drop of a hat. :) Poppy will be 2 years old next month, but of course she's had all the wrong training so we are joining a class to start off with the basics and take really small steps forward. Poppy has had 18 months of all the wrong training to be a gun dog so we are having to wipe the slate clean so-to-speak and start afresh.

I've been working on stop and sit, sit and stay, heel work, leave it, and recall. Without distractions she does it all. I've also been working on retrieve, hold, and release but with little success.

The trainer explained to the other two that Poppy is a failed detection dog so we were having to completely retrain her, and that she hoped Poppy would show an interest in what the others were doing and that might help her latch on.

It was really hard work and the problem I think is mainly me. We all practised walking up with the dogs sitting and staying then coming up to us and repeat as we moved up the field. I know Poppy can do this but with the other dogs she was really just ignoring me. Our trainer, Judy, took over and Poppy was as good as gold.

We also did a spot of introducing retrieving. Firstly to retrieve one dummy over a short distance and encourage delivery to hand and then sit. Then a double retrieve over a much longer distance. The first dummy sighted then the second placed as a simple blind in the same spot while the dog was returning with the first dummy.

The first exercise the other two labs were both very good and retrieved well but early days and hand over was a bit mixed. Poppy had to do this over a very short distance while still on lead. Holding problematic. One thing that really stood out though was she was absolutely right on it watching the other two do their stuff.

The second exercise again both of the other two labs did the stuff including the blind with a bit of help. Poppy again fascinated. When it came to her turn, Judy put the dummy on a training line so Pops couldn't run off with it and I did the release from about 100 yards away. Absolutely red hot on the out run and pick up and she also managed to bring the dummy back after a fashion. We tried it a couple of times and Poppy did improve.

So that was the end of the lesson and I felt is it really worth carrying on. Compared to the other two Labs, Poppy was hopeless and very hard work. I said as much including I thought I might be a weak link in the process as well. Judy said quite the opposite (and the other handlers agreed). She said even now she could see Poppy had a lot of potential and that she was a 100% full on working gundog and intelligent with it. She said Poppy had been watching the others and was working stuff out. The police training was the main problem we had to work on. If I agreed she'd like to raise the bar and take Poppy for a whole day working with her dogs and she'd do a video of the day so I could see what was needed.

So there you are. Onwards and upwards. This afternoon in the field on our own Poppy did everything to the letter (except a retrieve - I thought that was a step too far).
 
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Well done both , I know how much harder it can be with a ` second hand ` dog ( meant in the nicest possible way, I`ve had loads ! ) , rather than a blank canvass . Its lovely that your trainer thinks she has potential , just a matter of tuning in to it which you are striving to do , things can only get better x
 
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That sounds great @David to have a training with Judy and her dogs for a day. Poppy just has to relearn a whole new training habit and I am sure she can do it. I had a visitor yesterday who use to work with the local police sniffer dogs in training. He would have drugs on him and the dogs had to find him. One day, he was sitting, loaded with drugs, police sniffer dog walked straight past him to an Indian lady eating "Wotsits" πŸ˜†
 
I think you have both made progress and the plan is in blossoming. I like the sound of Judy as she is looking at both of you as a team. The day with Judy sounds really good. I have one observation as I did this myself. Try not to compare Poppy too much with other dogs. I did this with Hunter and especially with Super Max the Super Smart Well Behaved Labradoodle. I realised it was leaving me feeling flat and was hinderIng our progress and fun.
 

Joy

Location
East Sussex
I enjoyed your update and it sounds as if it's actually going much better than you feel it is. I wonder if you might find this book helpful: "Dog Sports Skills Book 4: Focus and Engage!" by Denise Fenzi and Deborah Jones (available on Kindle). Although it doesn't deal with gundog work (the sports are ring competitions such as obedience and agility), by far the biggest part of the book is about training a dog to engage with you when there are distractions, and it seems to me that the same principles apply.
One of the thing the book suggest is that during training a dog should be allowed to explore and acclimatise to a limited area (where there are distractions) very thoroughly before being asked to engage. Obviously on a shoot or in a ring you can't do this but this is part of the training process, and when you reach a level when they are requiring a shorter time to acclimatise then you let them do this in an area next to what you have designated 'the working area' and when they engage you then move to the working area and do your activity with no time for the dog to explore it first.
I'm using this approach with Rajah, a dog I borrow, and it seems to be working (though we'll have to see if it transfers to a show in the spring.)
Anyway just an idea that might help.
 

David

Moderator
Staff member
Well done both , I know how much harder it can be with a ` second hand ` dog ( meant in the nicest possible way, I`ve had loads ! ) , rather than a blank canvass . Its lovely that your trainer thinks she has potential , just a matter of tuning in to it which you are striving to do , things can only get better x
Yes second hand but lovely, although I think she tends to put on too much eye-liner some mornings! She's got a huge amount to learn but in terms of a second hand dog she at least is lucky to not have any of the cruelty/neglect issues of a lot of little rescue dogs. I'm feeling much more positive today. Just remembering she's been trained to be in your face and just go everywhere that takes her fancy. We found out early on that through or over a hedge really wasn't a problem, and "Oooh! A dog - I'll just swim over this river to say hello. Back in a tick!" :rofl:

That sounds great @David to have a training with Judy and her dogs for a day. Poppy just has to relearn a whole new training habit and I am sure she can do it. I had a visitor yesterday who use to work with the local police sniffer dogs in training. He would have drugs on him and the dogs had to find him. One day, he was sitting, loaded with drugs, police sniffer dog walked straight past him to an Indian lady eating "Wotsits" πŸ˜†
That really made me laugh. Just shows that no matter how well trained they still come up trumps with surprises.

I think you have both made progress and the plan is in blossoming. I like the sound of Judy as she is looking at both of you as a team. The day with Judy sounds really good. I have one observation as I did this myself. Try not to compare Poppy too much with other dogs. I did this with Hunter and especially with Super Max the Super Smart Well Behaved Labradoodle. I realised it was leaving me feeling flat and was hinderIng our progress and fun.
Yes musn't compare. I'm tending to compare her to Lady who was very biddable but, of course, also a bit timid. Yesterday it felt quite disheartening to see the younger dogs do their stuff pretty well I thought - then there was Poppy! :facepalm: But on the plus side when she did her couple of retrieves she had marked the dummy spot on both times and went straight to it like an arrow (musn't compare but the other two dogs both miss-judged the mark and had to hunt). So a spark of sunshine maybe.

I enjoyed your update and it sounds as if it's actually going much better than you feel it is. I wonder if you might find this book helpful: "Dog Sports Skills Book 4: Focus and Engage!" by Denise Fenzi and Deborah Jones (available on Kindle). Although it doesn't deal with gundog work (the sports are ring competitions such as obedience and agility), by far the biggest part of the book is about training a dog to engage with you when there are distractions, and it seems to me that the same principles apply.
One of the thing the book suggest is that during training a dog should be allowed to explore and acclimatise to a limited area (where there are distractions) very thoroughly before being asked to engage. Obviously on a shoot or in a ring you can't do this but this is part of the training process, and when you reach a level when they are requiring a shorter time to acclimatise then you let them do this in an area next to what you have designated 'the working area' and when they engage you then move to the working area and do your activity with no time for the dog to explore it first.
I'm using this approach with Rajah, a dog I borrow, and it seems to be working (though we'll have to see if it transfers to a show in the spring.)
Anyway just an idea that might help.
Thanks for the book recommendation - now in my Kindle library. The business about acclimatising to a new area is a big issue. Poppy wants to check everything out and she pretty much won't settle easily until she has done that.
 

Atemas

UK Tour Guide
I think she tends to put on too much eye-liner some mornings
I always say that about Red - I just love her kohl lined eyes πŸ‘€πŸ˜Šβ€

it felt quite disheartening to see the younger dogs do their stuff pretty well I thought
Yes but they may yet to get to their true adolescence. I love the expression ’work with the dog in front of you’ - it really made me relax more when I was finding Redβ€˜s puppy days so hard
 
Your Poppy sounds a total delight David, and as your trainer says very clever and eager to learn. Think about it this way - if you grew up in a different country, with a different culture, language and expectations, and then suddenly found yourself in for instance the UK, you would likely find it a challenge to unlearn everything you knew beforehand and to adapt to all the new customs...

I love the sound of her watching the other dogs! And good girl going straight to the dummy. I know she's different to Lady, but that's the name of the game - they really are all different!
 
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