Puppies and an older dog

Natalie

Natalie

I'm struggling a little bit with the interaction between Monty and Bear the puppy. At first all seemed really good, he was so keen to play with puppy and it seems very appropriate, not at all aggressive , and not too full on.

However in the last few days there are a few cracks appearing. Firstly it's almost impossible to get Monty to relax and stay on his own. We give him loads of safe spaces - sofas, beds, upstairs with the doors closed, but he just can't settle when we're in another room with the puppy. ( so, there's a sofa in the conservatory which is all his, and gives him a view of the garden, lounge, and kitchen and puppy can't get up on it so should be a perfect safe spot- he stays on it for two minutes max.)

Before Bear, he was happy to relax in a different room to us, he had no separation issues at all.
He generally wouldn't sleep upstairs when we were moving about downstairs but was happy to lounge on the sofa for hours while we had a lie-in on a weekend. The only way we can get him to properly relax now is if one of us moves upstairs with him. It reminds me of @Atemas situation when she was in the kitchen with Red and her OH and Sky were in a different room.

When he can see us with the puppy - maybe just separated by a stair gate - he barks and barks for attention until we give in. We've used kongs and all sorts of other distractions to pacify him but it just doesn't work. When Bear and Monty are together it's a bit unrelenting, there is full on puppy biting and I'm sure it's getting harder. Monty often squeals and I feel terrible for him, but he just won't move away from the situation, it's almost like he's become a tired Nanny for Bear.
Even in the garden when they're separated on different levels one will try to get to the other. Playing with them together is tricky as Bear is a greedy monkey, he will try and snatch Monty's treats even when he's already crunching them.

I suppose, I don't want to impose on Monty's goodwill and placid nature. I certainly don't want him to suddenly snap at Bear and hurt him ( I don't think he will, but goodness, Bear is a little bitey **** and clearly hurts Monty a lot). Every so often, I just think.... oh just sort it out yourselves... but then I wade in when it all gets to much. Mostly for Monty, but also I don't want Bear to be overstimulated or exercised.

Sorry for the stream of consciousness post. I know this could be worse, I'm glad I haven't got a dog which is either petrified of the puppy, or wants to kill him, but this is also quite exhausting. Any thoughts?

Reference: Bear's puppy log

Bear's Puppy Log

So... yes, he's Bear :rofl: Thought I would create a thread to track his progress and escapades. Sorry, this might be a bit boring..... Today he's nine weeks and two days, and weighs just over 7.5 kilos. He's absolutely hilarious and a joy to be around. He is sooooo bitey but we just shove a...
mylabradorfriends.com mylabradorfriends.com
 
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Candy

Candy

Biscuit Tin Guardian
Location
West Yorkshire, UK
Oh Natalie! This is something I have never done, don't know how to advise, just want to say I'm sure it will work out in the end but it must be difficult now and I'm sending :hug: :hug: :hug: I'm sure someone else will be able to offer you advice. In the meantime, hang on in there, love them both and keep the faith. xxx
Pee Ess, the seeds you sent me are now sprouting! Thankyou!xxx
 
Emily_Babbelhund

Emily_Babbelhund

Mama Red HOT Pepper
Location
Regensburg, Germany
Natalie said:
Monty often squeals and I feel terrible for him, but he just won't move away from the situation, it's almost like he's become a tired Nanny for Bear.
Click to expand...
Oh Monty is just such a sweetheart. I wonder if you've hit the nail on the head here. He's taken on Bear as his, which is great, but it's all a bit exhausting. I don't have any advice - Brogan's Mama Jodhi was very much his caretaker when he was a puppy but Brogan wasn't bitey so it wasn't an issue. Or I don't remember it being one - maybe I've blocked it out!

So just sending :hug: and hopes that everyone will adjust. It's such early days yet, though it probably doesn't feel that way to you!

ps just remembering that Brogan spent quite a bit of time in his x-pen at first where he and Jodhi could be close to each other but not play. Could that help or would that just drive Monty crazy?

Brogan & Jodhi BEST017.jpg
 
Atemas

Atemas

UK Tour Guide
Location
North Cambridgeshire
Just to echo @Emily_Babbelhund’s words - it is early days. Monty seemed to instantly take on a fatherly role but little did he know what that role would be. He must still be working it all out. I think the croco pup days have to be managed. I think our experience was extreme because Sky was just not interested at all in the puppy Red - it was a difficult time keeping them separate and having to stage manage the whole getting them together but as you know it did happen and was so worth it. I have no doubt Monty and Bear will become great pals 😊
 
Sophiedoodle

Sophiedoodle

Location
Fife, Scotland
I’m wondering whether Monty is like this because you’ve been home all the time for so long now? He’s been loving all the company and attention and now Bear is here, he doesn’t want him to “steal” the attention away? I’m not sure if that makes sense or if it’s any help whatsoever, but just a thought..... x
 
Boogie

Boogie

Moderator
Location
Manchester UK
We all go in the same space to play with pups when they are little. Tatze on her chair.

The pup isn’t allowed near her unless she gets off the chair, then all is fair game.

Once the pup is asleep he is popped in his crate and Tatze resumes normal wandering till he wakes.

It takes each pup about four weeks to get the message that Tatze is off limits when on her chair. It took Echo a lot longer and he still, very occasionally, tries it on. But we prevent him every time,

She dives for her chair when she’s had enough of the pup.

She’s seven now and chooses to play far less. She was 15 months old when the first pup arrived - over playing was very much the problem then!
 
kateincornwall

kateincornwall

Location
Cornwall , UK
@Natalie , I think the " cracks that are beginning to appear " are due to a growing confidence in Bear, he is feeling his feet and pushing his luck . It is tough when Monty is so good with him and yet here is this little monster who bites him and wont give him any peace .
Nelly had time being an only dog , all the attention and fuss , then along came Reuben who, like Bear , was quite full on and very bitey . In our case , it was different because she would not stand for any nonsense and would tell him off so he soon got the message that she must be respected . It is exhausting enough having a new puppy without the added concerns of the effects on the older dog but ride the storm and I`m sure it will all sort itself out, not much help right now though xx
 
Stacia

Stacia

Location
Malvern Worcestershire
I think the time will come when Monty will really tell Bear off and you must let him do it! It will be just the once if he does it properly. I would also remove the puppy not remove Monty when it all gets too much. It will settle down eventually!
 
snowbunny

snowbunny

Location
Andorra and Spain
Do you have a pen? That way, one of you can be in the pen with the puppy (or open out the pen and use it as a fence across the room) and the other can be the other side with Monty, so they're having individual attention at the same time?
I would also start working as soon as possible on having one settle on a station (could be a bed, the sofa, crate, whatever) while the other one is interacting with you. To start off with, teaching them both to be settled at the same time, and using a VERY high rate of reinforcement for them both.
 
snowbunny

snowbunny

Location
Andorra and Spain
PS by "settle" I mean nothing more than staying on the station to start off with. I wouldn't expect them to be relaxing. Just learning to be together but apart. When I had the twins, so neither of them had any skills, I used the crate for one of them while the other one was out. I sat next to the crate and fed the pup in the crate for every treat the other one got. Then I progressed to the door being open, then just a mat on the floor.
In hindsight, I know I still went waaaay too fast, but it all worked out in the wash :D
 
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