Really don’t know what to do (about lunging on lead) - BUT I DO NOW!!

snowbunny

snowbunny

Location
Andorra and Spain
Atemas said:
Red now knows I go out with treats in my right hand - that feels odd as I have the end of the lead in that hand too but I’m getting used to it ?.
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Once you have the mechanics and are building muscle memory, you can drop the lure and feed afterwards, like you normally would. If you practice so that sometimes you turn and immediately treat from either your hand or your bag and sometimes take a few paces before you treat it's more like the real world where you may not be ready. You need to build your muscle memory as much as the dog needs to build theirs :)
 
snowbunny

snowbunny

Location
Andorra and Spain
Selina27 said:
So do you continue to run your hand down the lead? I'm dreadful at fading out a lure, but I'd really like to get this right!
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Yes, that is really the cue; it gives you the control you need to stop the dog lunging if you're a bit late and makes it very much a non-negotiable action. Not that you want to be dragging your dog, of course, and that's where the muscle memory comes in, but it's the one cue I have that I don't let the dog say "no".
 
snowbunny

snowbunny

Location
Andorra and Spain
Atemas said:
I am too but it’s early days - I don’t intend to fade the lure until we have had a few more experiences of where Red would normally react.
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Absolutely, get the mechanics right!
Normally with our behaviours, we go about systematically proofing and as we make the environment more difficult, we can go back to using the lure for a rep or two, just to be clear to the dog. Obviously the scenarios where you might need the A2B are often out of our control, so having the handful of treats to use in case you have to deal with a "level 10" event before you've even proofed to "level 4" is a really good idea! But also, as you're practicing with the lower levels that you know she's not going to react to, you can start to fade.

It's a good idea to keep on practicing all the time, using random objects as your "trigger" to turn away from, because otherwise she might make the connection that the hand sliding down the lead means there's something in the environment to worry about if you only ever use it in scenarios where she would react. An added bonus of it, I find, is that it helps lead walking. It adds to your spontaneity, so the dog is more likely to want to stick with you, even if you're only doing it once every fifteen minutes.
 
Atemas

Atemas

UK Tour Guide
Location
North Cambridgeshire
snowbunny said:
Absolutely, get the mechanics right!
Normally with our behaviours, we go about systematically proofing and as we make the environment more difficult, we can go back to using the lure for a rep or two, just to be clear to the dog. Obviously the scenarios where you might need the A2B are often out of our control, so having the handful of treats to use in case you have to deal with a "level 10" event before you've even proofed to "level 4" is a really good idea! But also, as you're practicing with the lower levels that you know she's not going to react to, you can start to fade.

It's a good idea to keep on practicing all the time, using random objects as your "trigger" to turn away from, because otherwise she might make the connection that the hand sliding down the lead means there's something in the environment to worry about if you only ever use it in scenarios where she would react. An added bonus of it, I find, is that it helps lead walking. It adds to your spontaneity, so the dog is more likely to want to stick with you, even if you're only doing it once every fifteen minutes.
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Yes that all makes good sense thank you ?.
 
Atemas

Atemas

UK Tour Guide
Location
North Cambridgeshire
Fantastic walk tonight. Just about every dog Red has ever reacted to, every cat in the village strolling into view and children running around close to us in their quest to ‘hide and seek’ (well this might all be a slight exaggeration ?) and Red was so cool. She saw everything the second I saw everything and just me saying ‘this way’ had her looking at my right hand. As we needed to get past the trigger, I couldn’t always turn her but there was no need - she focussed on my hand until we moved past and I was then able to reward her and we continued on. I couldn’t believe it. A week ago she would have been lunging. I have been practicing each day using random triggers. Tonight they were the real thing. So pleased ?.
 
Atemas

Atemas

UK Tour Guide
Location
North Cambridgeshire
Charlie said:
Wow Alison you must be thrilled to bits with Red's progress
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Well I am @Charlie - she does seem to pick things up quickly but I know we have a lot of work ahead. My other walks this week have been very quiet - no other dogs about. It’s just so reassuring to know I have something I can positively use - it is very empowering and as they say ‘practice makes perfect’ so we will continue to practice.
 
Atemas

Atemas

UK Tour Guide
Location
North Cambridgeshire
I think my title for this thread should now read ‘Really do know what to do’ ?.

Fantastic walk this evening with Red. Two little dogs suddenly appeared out of a passageway that leads to a field . A few weeks ago Red would have gone from 0-60 in a few seconds, lunging and barking but no she looked, I slid my hand down the lead, moved her round saying ‘this way’ and like a lamb she did, not a back glance, nothing, just trotted on by my side. Sometimes this technique isn’t even necessary. If `I say ‘Look’ as I did when a cat appeared, she just looks at me and stays calm. We are passing people without me needing to do anything. It’s almost as if the A to B has permeated into all the trigger events and she is just so much calmer ?.
 
Charlie

Charlie

Location
Argyll & Bute, Scotland
I love this thread Alison as it's a life saver. Can I ask, do you think you will always have to move her round or will the hand down the lead be all that's necessary, eventually? I have just started training this so just interested :) Well done to you and Red, it's just lovely to read your success xxx
 
Atemas

Atemas

UK Tour Guide
Location
North Cambridgeshire
I am hoping @Charlie that eventually I won’t have to move her round. Thing is she knows I have treats in my right hand and they are a great motivator. She is almost fixed on that right hand the whole walk (we do play a few games and I do let her sniff). She also responds to the words ‘this way’ even if the treats don’t come quickly, it’s like she knows she will get them eventually. This has taken the urgency out of it all and I think the sliding hand on the lead means good things are going to come - it really distracts her from the triggers that used to make her lunge.
 
snowbunny

snowbunny

Location
Andorra and Spain
By pairing the trigger with something good - in this case the food and “game”, assuming you’re making it fun - you are using classical conditioning to teach your dog that the trigger predicts good stuff from you. So over time, not only does the dog start to look to you when they see their trigger, but they also lose the old emotional response, be that caused by fear or over-excitement. That means that the manoeuvre itself becomes less necessary.
 
Atemas

Atemas

UK Tour Guide
Location
North Cambridgeshire
snowbunny said:
in this case the food and “game”, assuming you’re making it fun
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Well now I have the mechanics and I know it’s working, I can focus more on making it more fun. Certainly our walk had become less fun - the day I got hurt really unnerved me (recovery takes so much longer as you get older ?) - she might only be a small Labrador - she’s 21kg - but those lunges were crazy. Having success makes confidence grow and she deserves fun ?.
 
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