Scared/Hesitant at times

[VanillaBean]

Not sure where this sits, but I somehow seem to have a minor problem that I think will become bigger. It is in two parts to try and give a larger picture.

In general they get on well and play well together but at times we have to intervene to stop. This is mainly when we can tell that Vanilla has had enough or that Honey is getting to exited.
But on the following occasions I can't work it out.

1 - Morning take Honey for toilet then bring her back upstairs to organise breakfast for Honey and get Vanilla to go to toilet and her breakfast. When Vanilla jumps down from our bed, Honey just seems to launch her self at her. Honey will go for her face/Neck or leg in a manner I can only describe as a bully (I know it is not as such, but imagine someone walking up to you and rather than saying good morning and shaking your hand decides to punch). I can stop it if I can catch Honey early enough, and currently I can control this, but anyone know why?

2 - When they go to toilet after a walk, or from being upstairs or we have played in the garden, Honey will be in the lounge or hallway whilst Vanilla will remain outside by the door or inside by the stairs not wanting to move. Vanilla does not want to move, even if I pick Honey up and take her away. When she does move she will seek me out and wants me to rescue her. On closer watching them, it just seems to be that Honey is giving off some sort of signal more on a 'I am going to get you'. Even distracting Honey does not seem to make any difference to Vanilla. Similar to above but different setting. This one is not all the time, but becoming more and more and I want to try and see if I can get it back to normal.

What my concern is I don't want Honey to become a bully nor do I want Vanilla to become subdued and then eventually being scared of going out to her own garden or getting up in the mornings. I will add I can't leave Honey downstairs as she barks and howls the place down and nor do I get any help from OH due to her being asleep in the morning and evenings etc. just....

Thoughts especially those that have multiple dogs...

 

[Lab_adore]

Wow, I can't help Sven but I hope you can sort something out soon. It must be very worrying

 

[Anne123]

Just a question that pops up in my mind...Do you use a crate or baby gates in these situations?

 

[VanillaBean]

@Lab_adore yes so do I, but not to worried at moment, just want to try and figure it out. I know there is this thought process by some people of 'it will be alright they will sort it out' and yes to an extend I think that is true, but not necessarily for everything.

@Anne123 yes we have a baby gate for the downstairs lounge, and one at top of the stairs. using the one for the lounge makes no difference, and even if I pick Honey up and take her upstairs it can be a while before Vanilla will come but even when she then does come, Vanilla will still be vary of Honey.

 

[Atemas]

Going on our experience with our two - I understand exactly what you are saying. I worried so much about Sky (who is a lot older) as Red was quite a tornado when she was at the crocopup stage. Every situation had to be micro managed. It took a good 4 months (Red was six months) to have them together all the time and then one of us was always with them. I thought Red was bullying Sky as Sky was so passive. I really thought we had made a massive mistake getting a second dog BUT no - it was just puppy behaviour and Red calmed down.

It just takes time and patience and ensuring Vanilla has her own space and attention when necessary.

Sky was mega wary of Red for what seemed like forever but bit by bit their relationship sorted itself out. (They are both lying by my feet as I type). Sky has been an amazing teacher to Red - it’s a privilege to observe them. They have a special closeness that is quite poignant. It isn’t always obvious but I am in tune with their subtle affection towards each other.

I think consideration at all times of the older dog is important. Sky had 10 years alone with just us before Red - I still have pangs of guilt - but she adjusted - we ensure she has her own space at times and we continue to give her lots and lots of love and cuddles (Red usually comes barging in with her youthful ‘me, me, me’ way!!

All will be well.

 

[Boogie]

Tatze is exactly the same.

I think it’s due to her loving the baby pups so much she sets no boundaries and let’s them do anything to her. So when when she wants the older pup to stop she doesn’t know what to do. Zaba sets boundaries from the start so he can always default to ‘stop that now’ language. This, in turn, means he’s much more confident round the pups as they grow. I liken Tatze to a teacher who is not strict enough at the start of a year. Zaba is the teacher who stands no nonsense then slowly lets up - but can always reign the class in when she needs to.

If Spencer (and this is true of all our pups, male and female) is in the way in a doorway Tatze won’t go past and will woof for me to move him.

All my pups have also had a phase of being OTT and appearing to ‘bully’ her. I distract them and do some joint training if the pup starts in this vein. The good news is that they’ve all grown out of it. Spencer is beginning to play much more appropriately now, but I still need to rescue Tatze now and again.

As far as the pups go I put it down to inexperience - not personality, as they’ve all been the same in this respect but have had very different personalities.


.

 

[SteffiS]

A lot of the time I have the opposite problem, Ripple is over the top with Toffee. I still have to keep my two separate the majority of the time indoors as otherwise the play (riot / chaos ) doesn’t stop. However I have noticed that Ripple is trying to get away from Toffee sometimes and lay down quietly, and Toffee won’t leave him alone.
I am just working through this by separating using baby gates, the crate, and a partitioned area.

Toffee also drives me insane by really loud barking whenever I take Ripple down the garden for a wee, he just can’t seem to bear it if Ripple might be doing something he’s not involved in. Because I’m on my own so much of the time I have just have to let him bark. I would have thought by now Toffee would have realised I’m going to be back in about two minutes.

Hopefully these things will eventually resolve themselves.

 

[snowbunny]

Toffee also drives me insane by really loud barking whenever I take Ripple down the garden for a wee, he just can’t seem to bear it if Ripple might be doing something he’s not involved in. Because I’m on my own so much of the time I have just have to let him bark. I would have thought by now Toffee would have realised I’m going to be back in about two minutes.

Haha, total FOMO. Luna can be a FOMO dog sometimes. What helped with her is lots of learning to take turns.

 

[MellowYellow]

We had similar when Poppy was a puppy and Bones an old dog. He was unable to tell her not to bite or play roughly, and used to just stand there and cry until we rescued him. With time Honey will calm down, but in the meantime you need to give Vanilla some space where she can be sure the puppy cannot get to her, and make sure you spend quality time alone with Vanilla, as well.

 

[Boogie]

I find the pups slowly learn, over time, that they get more access to Tatze if they are gentle (polite) - but it takes time for them to learn that kind of impulse control.

I love seeing it slowly emerging. In fact Spencer’s age (10 months) really is my favourite as you watch the adult dog slowly emerge and see the kind of dog they are going to become.

 

[VanillaBean]

THanks all, knew I could get an answer. I never thought it was anything untoward, but not having had 2 dogs just wanted to make sure.
Vanilla gets her alone time and alone play time with me as always, so that has not changed. She also gets her space, which is in our bedroom, Honey does not go in to disturb her.

We have same problem with Honey barking, if I take Vanilla downstairs/upstairs all I can hear from the other end is a bark and a whine, and repeat. Drives me nuts and it is more of a FOMO, as soon she is part of it she just has to explore where she thinks Vanilla has been.

At least from reading yours I can see that it will get better and fairly common.

 

[kateincornwall]

Reuben was the same for a while , he would ambush Nelly and given the size difference , this worried me greatly . I found that once he started going for more walks , this slowed up and has just about stopped now as he has better things to occupy his mind . Nelly has been very tolerant of Reuben but when she has had enough she will tell him off , he then backs right off and gives her a wide berth .

 

[Anne123]

We always have had 2 labs. The first two were Doerak and Euan. They got along very well! They played and had fun together. With Euan and Finn a different story. Euan didn’t like Finn, but after a while he tolerated him. Like him and Doerak it never became. Euan started barking as a result of Finn’s behavior. Finn barked a lot, and after a while they started barking together....
As Finn is a totally different dog as we have been used to we decided not to have another dog after Euan died. So now we only have Finn, and we have our hands full with him!

 

[edzbird]

Just to say I definitely don't think Honey is a bully, she's just VERY playful and Vanilla's level of play does not match hers.