Temptation Alley -- help required !

[Selina27]

Cassie and I are taking part in the 3 week recall challenge as invited by @Beanwood, and we are both enjoying doing the proximity games both old and new to us. To be fair, her recall isn't bad, except for the scavenging which happens in our immediate environment, from seeking out cat poo in the herbaceous borders (best game of find it ever I imagine) to ravaging anyone of 2 compost heaps for carrots or cabbage stalks. It's like "I'll just do this and I'll be with you" !!

So Temptation Alley really is what I should be doing! I need some help to organise myself though. Toys are unlikely to be a problem, rabbit skin dummy might be, food will be. But saying that anything she sees me put down she doesn't usually go for as I taught her as puppy to resist that impulse. But she will take any snacks she finds on the ground herself.

I'm thinking along the the lines off starting out with kibble and rewarding with high value meat or squeezy cheese and gradually increase the food I put down.

All suggestions welcome

 

[Joy]

That sounds like a good plan. When you move on to put down the higher value food, I suppose you could recall past it (just one item) and then release her to go and get it. Premack? (A bit like the Zen bowl idea we looked at a few years ago.)
I might have a go at temptation alley with Molly but actually in an artificial set-up I think she would recall past food easily as I've often done it (famous last words!) What I really need to acquire is a dead seagull - she will bring me these and hand them over but not picking them up in the first place might be a step too far!

 

[Selina27]

Thanks @Joy.

I suppose you could recall past it (just one item) and then release her to go and get it. Premack? (A bit like the Zen bowl idea we looked at a few years ago.)

Yes, I thought I could work towards this, thanks.

What I really need to acquire is a dead seagull

 

[Joy]

But she will take any snacks she finds on the ground herself.

Thinking about it further, I think you are right that a dog might find it harder to resist food on the ground than that in a bowl, as we have usually trained them not to take food froma container until told to. In which case I would start with low value food in a bowl, then high value food in a bowl, then low value food in a little pile on the floor, then high etc, then low value scattered, then high scattered.

 

[Selina27]

In which case I would start with low value food in a bowl, then high value food in a bowl, then low value food in a little pile on the floor, then high etc, then low value scattered, then high scattered.

Brilliant thank you. Sometimes I just need someone to organise my thoughts in black and white for me!

 

[snowbunny]

You could also use a cover like a sieve or colander so she gets the scent but has no easy access. It's a very strong visual cue though, so fading it could be more difficult, although I think if you work on building the strong pattern of running the alley then that will override the temptations. I think that with most of these things people add too much complexity too early. Build the behaviour you want (a strong, fluent run along the path) before adding in anything else, and then bring them in in a controlled way so that they're not even really a distraction. Fade them in, so to speak.

 

[Beanwood]

With Bramble we did this..

1. Empty bowls ( same location throughout...) - but let Bramble see they were empty. Recall through a few times. at the end of each recall, drop a few high value treats at your feet.

2. Rinse and repeat (number 1..) but walk to empty bowl and drop couple low value kibble in at the end recall, and let Cassie help herself. Keep doing this until Cassie comes back fluidly to you, remembering to drop high value treats at your feet when Cassie recalls back.. think of it as as sort of "holding pattern".

3. Low value kibble in the the bowl, but still high value treats dropped at your feet. Cassie runs to you, past kibble in bowl for high value treats at your feet, then use your release cue for kibble in bowl.

4. Instead of high value treats at your feet, place them first in the bowl, what should happen is Cassie come back to you, waits ... then release to the bowl. ( if you dare!)

Bramble does temptation Alley....

 

[Joy]

I think if you work on building the strong pattern of running the alley then that will override the temptations.

That's true but if the intention is to proof recall generally (rather than just a trick/competition behaviour) I think you would need to find ways to make it mimic real-life - so different locations and building up to food scattered randomly across the path.

 

[Selina27]

Our first attempt at a very small Temptation Alley this morning. Starting with an empty bowl might have been better!

After a little thought and using recall whistle after she'd seen me place the kibble in the dish !

Quite a bit of work to do methinks!

 

[Selina27]

Thanks for all replies so far

if the intention is to proof recall generally (rather than just a trick/competition behaviour) I think you would need to find ways to make it mimic real-life -

Yes, absolutely this.

 

[Beanwood]

Good girl Cassie! That's tough with the distractions so close together!

 

[Loraseal]

Thank goodness you asked this as I was struggling also. Empty bowl first was a game changer!

 

[Selina27]

That's tough with the distractions so close together!

Is it? I haven't got a lot of choice in my small garden.

 

[snowbunny]

That's true but if the intention is to proof recall generally (rather than just a trick/competition behaviour) I think you would need to find ways to make it mimic real-life - so different locations and building up to food scattered randomly across the path.

That’s not mutually exclusive with the suggestions I made. Firstly, identify the goal. The goal here is running Temptation Alley. That’s it. Sure, this is a smaller part of a bigger topic (recall) but the goal right now is the successful running down the alley, nothing more. So you work on that pattern. Of course, moving forward you want to do it in different places yada yada yada, but the pattern remains the same. Cue is given, dog runs straight to you, ignoring any distractions that are between you and them. Start with getting fluency in that behaviour and then fade the distractions in.