- Location
- Herefordshire, UK
As above @Emily_Babbelhund
The Labraventures of Carbón, Spanish (ex-) foster dog extraordinaire
- Thread starter Emily_Babbelhund
- Start date
Candy
Biscuit Tin Guardian
- Location
- West Yorkshire, UK
And from me too, with 
- Location
- Sydney, Australia
And me
Emily_Babbelhund
Mama Red HOT Pepper
- Location
- Regensburg, Germany
Thank you for the whole chain of , they mean a lot. 
Carbon and I had a short but good 6am walk again today. I'm still trying to reacquaint him with the idea that we don't actually need to wee on every bush in the park. He's so funny when he thinks I'm being unfair...there's a lot of slinking and "DOG ABUSE!!" eye roll action. I think things will be REALLY interesting when we start up his SD training again next week. Our trainer Donna is going to spend the first session as a dog/human version of couples therapist!
Longer walks would help us both, so fingers, toes and anything else crossed that his bloods come back better at our next appointment this Friday.
, they mean a lot. Carbon and I had a short but good 6am walk again today. I'm still trying to reacquaint him with the idea that we don't actually need to wee on every bush in the park. He's so funny when he thinks I'm being unfair...there's a lot of slinking and "DOG ABUSE!!" eye roll action. I think things will be REALLY interesting when we start up his SD training again next week. Our trainer Donna is going to spend the first session as a dog/human version of couples therapist!
Longer walks would help us both, so fingers, toes and anything else crossed that his bloods come back better at our next appointment this Friday.
Emily_Babbelhund
Mama Red HOT Pepper
- Location
- Regensburg, Germany
We had our vet appointment and - yay! - Carbon's blood levels went in the right direction for the first time. It was enough for our vet to say that we can add 10 minutes each day to our walks. This is great news for Carbon and also for me. Time to get walking!
He's still not 100% yet - gums still a bit pale and not out of the anaemia woods yet. @Beanwood I asked her about the iron infusion and she said it's too hard on their stomachs. Carbon is not quite in that dire area where the discomfort from the infusion would be worth it. However she said she may consider tablets. I've had iron tablets and those suckers were nasty, so I'm a bit gobsmacked that tablets are the 'gentler' version.
Dr. Patzak also took more bloods to test for something else that she thinks may be wrong. I didn't understand what it was and she had no time to talk to me today as she had to go into emergency surgery. His extra blood work plus urinalysis should be ready early next week, so we will talk over the phone hopefully Monday.
I still don't think she's keen on the Milteforan, but clearly we need to do something to get to the bottom of this.
But for today it was good news, so one step at a time...
He's still not 100% yet - gums still a bit pale and not out of the anaemia woods yet. @Beanwood I asked her about the iron infusion and she said it's too hard on their stomachs. Carbon is not quite in that dire area where the discomfort from the infusion would be worth it. However she said she may consider tablets. I've had iron tablets and those suckers were nasty, so I'm a bit gobsmacked that tablets are the 'gentler' version.
Dr. Patzak also took more bloods to test for something else that she thinks may be wrong. I didn't understand what it was and she had no time to talk to me today as she had to go into emergency surgery. His extra blood work plus urinalysis should be ready early next week, so we will talk over the phone hopefully Monday.
I still don't think she's keen on the Milteforan, but clearly we need to do something to get to the bottom of this.
But for today it was good news, so one step at a time...
- Location
- Cornwall , UK
Thats much better , thank goodness . A step in the right direction , for you both xxx
Beanwood
Administrator
Oral iron tablets play havoc with the gut. Carbon is aneamic, so would need a high dose which will take months before you see any real increase in ferritin levels. Personally I wouldn't even bother, you would be better with good quality red meat - ( heme iron vs. non heme iron).
IV iron would offer an instant improvement in ferritin levels, the rate of nausea is low, very, very low, well it is in humans, around 2.5 %, and generally this is mild and transient, and humans feel so much better after an IV iron infusion. Of course there are scenarios where IV iron is not the best solution, and there are other options such as EPO, (an injection which stimulates iron production) but underlying disease needs to be understood first, so, one question I would ask, what does the white cell count look like? liver and kidney function holding their own? Lung and heart sound good?
Another note. Carbon is having rather a lot of blood taken, this again will drop his levels. Taking his blood to test for what exactly? Sorry to sound negative, you know what I am like! I would really be wanting answers at this point and a clear treatment plan going forward.
Emily_Babbelhund
Mama Red HOT Pepper
- Location
- Regensburg, Germany
@Beanwood thanks for your thoroughness. I'll try to answer, but your questions make me realise I'm still really in the dark plus I don't have the background to even know what to ask about. This is what happens when you study bloody marketing instead of something useful like science and medicine. Argh. 
One thing that adds to all this is that I do not get any results by writing like I do with other vets in most other countries: all results get to me verbally and not in numbers but 'looks good', 'worries me', and that sort of thing. This isn't optimal but is typical for Germany.
You could have a very good point about the multiple blood tests, though the time between this one and the last was 10 days. On the other hand, vets in Germany take blood in a way I've seen nowhere else: they tap a vein, stick an open needle in, then catch the blood in a vial as it gushes out. It usually means you get some extra blood on the table if the vein is a good one. Today they hit pay dirt and there was quite a bit of overspill. I know it sounds bizarre and it freaked me out at first, but this is how they do it here.
Not saying they are bleeding him dry or anything - probably looks much worse than it is - but it does mean more blood loss happens than strictly goes in the test tubes.
I said "iron infusion" in English and Dr. Patzak said this caused severe stomach problems. This doesn't sound like what you are saying at all so my vet and I may have had a big failure to communicate. I will ask again and look up the correct words in German in this weekend. I can send her a WhatsApp with the hopefully correct terms, that may help us when we talk next week.
She hasn't listened to heart and lung sounds lately, so another thing to ask about. She looked at white cell count 10 days ago and said it was elevated but not scary. Liver and kidney function hasn't been tested since the surgery.
One thing that adds to all this is that I do not get any results by writing like I do with other vets in most other countries: all results get to me verbally and not in numbers but 'looks good', 'worries me', and that sort of thing. This isn't optimal but is typical for Germany.
The bloods taken before surgery were a couple tubes (sorry, again don't know how much) for a full blood panel as was the one right after surgery as I asked for a Leish test as well as for anaemia (haemoglobin?). The three other tests were tiny tubes (really tiny) that they test on the spot (not sent to lab) to test the anaemia. Today she took a bigger amount (2 tubes again) because she said she wanted to test "baby cell levels". I have NO CLUE what she meant by that and she was flustered because of the emergency op and didn't have time to explain. So honestly no idea what she tested for today in addition to anaemia.
You could have a very good point about the multiple blood tests, though the time between this one and the last was 10 days. On the other hand, vets in Germany take blood in a way I've seen nowhere else: they tap a vein, stick an open needle in, then catch the blood in a vial as it gushes out. It usually means you get some extra blood on the table if the vein is a good one. Today they hit pay dirt and there was quite a bit of overspill. I know it sounds bizarre and it freaked me out at first, but this is how they do it here.
Not saying they are bleeding him dry or anything - probably looks much worse than it is - but it does mean more blood loss happens than strictly goes in the test tubes.
Yes, you are right. I'm so used to being confused and frustrated when it comes to vet visits that to me, this long and unfulfilling process is just par for the course. I appreciate an outside viewpoint to say, "Um, that is NOT normal!". Let me prep my vocabulary and a list of questions, send her those by WhatsApp and then see if we can schedule yet again a meeting.
Beanwood
Administrator
Oh dear, hope I didn't offend! I forget how complicated ( and frustrating....) it must be trying to communicate in something other than your mother tongue!
I do wonder if your vet thought you were thing of an iron infusion..... as a sort of "tea???"
.... well yes, I would imagine that would cause all sort of weird gastric problems. Did the vet give you a rather strange look at the same time?
Baby cells? ..... well a wild guess would be, if we are still thinking along the lines of understanding the aneamia ....she has taken blood for a " Retic count" . This would indeed be a good step forward in understanding what is happening at a deeper level. So all good there!
I do wonder if your vet thought you were thing of an iron infusion..... as a sort of "tea???"
.... well yes, I would imagine that would cause all sort of weird gastric problems. Did the vet give you a rather strange look at the same time?Baby cells? ..... well a wild guess would be, if we are still thinking along the lines of understanding the aneamia ....she has taken blood for a " Retic count" . This would indeed be a good step forward in understanding what is happening at a deeper level. So all good there!
Jacqui-S
Moderator
- Location
- Fife, Scotland
Emily_Babbelhund
Mama Red HOT Pepper
- Location
- Regensburg, Germany
No, absolutely not! I really value your scientific/medical perspective. Thank you, thank you.
Oh geez, anything is possible at this point!I do wonder if your vet thought you were thing of an iron infusion..... as a sort of "tea???"
Interesting...I'll look that up, thank you.
You can say that again. It's also a cultural thing as 'standard operating procedure' varies quite widely amongst vets in different countries.
Good ideas, thank you. Nadine has zero time at the moment, however recording the consultations is a great idea. Also Nadine may be able to CALL my vet and talk to her, even if she can't attend an in-person meeting. That's another idea for me to consider.
- Location
- Vlaardingen, the Netherlands
In German it would be Eisen Transfusion....I am quite familiar with the German medical terminology. If I can give you a hand with that let me know!
Emily_Babbelhund
Mama Red HOT Pepper
- Location
- Regensburg, Germany
Viele lieben Dank! You wouldn't happen to know a good vocabulary list of basic - intermediate medical terms, would you?
I have a bit of human medical German vocabulary already from having my cancer surgery and chemo here, but it was a while ago plus Carbon has very different issues than I did so a lot of my vocabulary isn't very helpful.
- Location
- Melbourne, Australia
I had an iron infusion 18months ago and another one yesterday. Simple process, no side effects (I do worry about getting a stained arm when it goes in!) and felt so much better within days last time so fingers crossed for this time too!
Boogie
Moderator
- Location
- Manchester UK
I had serious anaemia some years ago and had two blood transfusions - I felt like a new woman after them!
- Location
- Vlaardingen, the Netherlands
Sorry, leider nicht...!
Emily_Babbelhund
Mama Red HOT Pepper
- Location
- Regensburg, Germany
Keine Sorgen!
