Toffee accused of being aggressive

[SteffiS]

This was this afternoon when I was walking both the dogs together. I’ve been mulling it over and can’t quite understand what happened.

There is a couple in the village roughly my age, who have 2 dogs and also board a couple of dogs in their home most weeks. Toffee absolutely loves them and always wants to talk to them, and they usually make a big fuss of him. This afternoon they were walking the 4 dogs and Toffee saw them and pulled me across, he was all over the people and also greeting the other dogs. We then went past them but Toffee was so excited he wanted to go back to them again and yanked the lead out of my hand. I wasn’t particularly worried as he’s never been any trouble with them.
All of a sudden the man grabbed Toffee by the collar and pulled him upwards and was shouting at him, telling him he was a bad bad dog - at first I thought he was just joking with him then I realised he was actually telling him off. Both of them then said Toffee had attacked one of their boarded dogs, as far as I was aware Toffee had just got over excited and was trying to get the other dog to indulge in rough labrador play, the other dog had rolled over and the play had got too much. Unfortunately they insisted Toffee had attacked the dog and wouldn’t accept this was how he and Ripple sometimes play. The other dog had just got up and wandered off sniffing, they checked him over and said there was no damage but were quite upset at me.

Now I’ve thought about this for ages and several things are bothering me, I don’t like the insistence Toffee was aggressive, I really don’t think he was, but I’m not happy that he played so roughly that it could be mistaken for that. I’m also becoming more and more upset about the way Toffee was treated by the man from the couple.
It all happened so fast that I really can’t be sure what went on. Toffee does sometimes have problems with other dogs, but it’s a fear reaction, and he growls at them from a distance and doesn’t approach them.

Not really sure whether I’m asking a question or just trying to get this off my chest.

 

[HAH]

This sounds incredibly upsetting @SteffiS . You don’t need to have a reason to post about it - sharing a horrible incident is important.

Whatever else, it’s entirely unreasonable for another person to manhandle an animal in that way and you’re understandably upset.

It’s maybe all a bit hot right now to process, so perhaps now you’ve written it down you might be able to put it to one side and see how you feel in the morning. I hope you can do a shake off (literally if needed, I’m increasingly doing this myself when I need to de-stress!) and get a good night’s rest x

 

[Candy]

How very upsetting for you @SteffiS . Exactly as Harriet has said, what happened is reason enough to post, and that's what we're all here for. Just because a dog engages somewhat enthusiastically with another dog (and I'm sure that's all Toffee was doing) it doesn't in any way make him/ her a 'bad dog ' and certainly I don't feel anyone should grab a dog, particularly one that's not theirs unless it's a real emergency. GGJ also has a fear/ growl/ bark reaction to some dogs since she was attacked and all she's doing is saying 'Stay away!' Most experienced dog owners understand this. I hope you manage a good night's sleep and feel better in the morning. Neither you nor Toffee are to blame here as far as I can see and it sounds to me like the man misinterpreted the situation hugely.
It is so very upsetting when these things happen with our dogs, after all they are much loved family members. However all of us here know that your lovely Toffee is still
The not naughty one.

 

[Cath]

I am so sorry that you have been upset @SteffiS You know Toffee best. The man should not of done that to him and
I would give the couple a wide berth.Try not to keep reliving it again, get a good nights sleep x

 

[Anne123]

I’m so sorry you are upset about this! I know, because I’ve been through almost the same with Finn a few weeks ago….It’s the man who was in the wrong and mis interpreted the reaction of Toffee. We must not forget, and especially this man that we have animals who can be unpredictable. You know for yourself that you should have hold him, but they are strong and wants to play. But the man looses himself this way made you upset. I have had the same with Finn running towards a beagle. The man walking the beagle started to kick Finn that made me mad. I think I’ve written the story here somewhere else. He misinterpreted Finns reaction. I know I was in the wrong to let Finn run towards them, but that doesn’t mean that he did what he did. He accused Finn also of being aggressive. These men clearly did not understand the language our dog are talking…..Try to forget this incident and do as you always do. This incident will stay long on your mind, so have I still not forgotten about it. See it as a learning moment….

 

[Lab_adore]

Every since we left Maxx in the free range kennels for 7 weeks he developed a 'thing' against some dogs. We figure he might have been picked on due to his gentle nature had to learn quickly to defend himself

When he takes a dislike he REALLY looks and sounds aggressive but he is just telling them to back off. I see some owners who don't know him look at him like he is a monster but we try not to let it upset us as we know it's not true; just as you know lovely Toffee is not aggressive and that man went way too far and over-the-top.

 

[Stacia]

Please try and not let it worry you, you know Toffee is not aggressive and the man misinterpreted his over excitement and no way should he have manhandled Toffee. Maybe you can have a talk with him and put it to rest.

 

[Atemas]

Having met Toffee twice and Red having a blast with both Ripple and Toffee - I know for a fact Toffee is not aggressive and to call him a ‘bad bad dog’ is totally untrue. I think that man overreacted and maybe there is a bigger picture here that you can‘t possibly know about. I can understand though you being upset and trying to work out what the heck it was all about. Maybe you will have the chance to talk to the couple but if they still maintain Toffee is aggressive, then say you disagree and that you didn’t like your dog being handled aggressively and then walk away

 

[Granca]

I’m so sorry you’ve had such an unpleasant incident. I hope Toffee is ok and doesn’t have any after-effects from being manhandled in that way. Hope you had a good night’s sleep too.

 

[Selina27]

Sorry you had that experience @SteffiS , I hope you're feeling alright this morning.
If this is someone you see regularly is it worth trying to have a conversation to try and prevent any issues building up? I guess all of us, dogs or human , can get things wrong and over react at times. Perhaps he felt responsible for the dog they are boarding and so behaved as he did.

I can't imagine Toffee was being anything other than an over enthusiastic Labrador though!

 

[kateincornwall]

Sorry you had that experience @SteffiS , I hope you're feeling alright this morning.
If this is someone you see regularly is it worth trying to have a conversation to try and prevent any issues building up? I guess all of us, dogs or human , can get things wrong and over react at times. Perhaps he felt responsible for the dog they are boarding and so behaved as he did.

I can't imagine Toffee was being anything other than an over enthusiastic Labrador though!

As above , I think he greatly overreacted due to being in charge of other peoples dogs . I am so sorry for your upset xx

 

[SteffiS]

Toffee is definitely a very excitable boy, he loves meeting people, and is still not showing much sign of calming down despite being 4, and in spite of practicing calming behaviours with me.

I don't feel anyone should grab a dog, particularly one that's not theirs unless it's a real emergency.

I can only assume this is what he thought, plus the fact he was in charge of other people’s dogs.

I know for a fact Toffee is not aggressive and to call him a ‘bad bad dog’ is totally untrue.

Thank you for this Alison, it’s nice to have that comment from someone who has met him.

I keep thinking about going and talking to them because it is a small village, but from their attitude yesterday I’m pretty certain they will still insist he was aggressive. They moved here just after us and have always been very friendly, especially making a fuss of Toffee, so it made yesterday’s incident all the more surprising, hence why I first thought he was just joking with him.

I hope Toffee is ok and doesn’t have any after-effects from being manhandled in that way.

I’d be surprised if Toffee has any after effects, I suspect he probably thought it was just excitable labrador play from the man , but I will keep an eye on him.

I’m still really unhappy though, if he really thought it was aggression he could have just pulled him away not treated him like that - I certainly wouldn’t board my dogs with them.
I’m going to avoid them for the moment, I don’t trust myself not to get upset if I try and talk to them.

 

[edzbird]

That man was totally in the wrong, it sounds like a massive overreaction. I like Alison's idea of trying a conversation with them when everyone's had a chance to process the event. But whatever, I'd give them a wide berth in future.

I understand just what it's like to have that over-enthusiastic greeter - Coco. He doesn't have a bad bone in him, but he is such a rough player and he will, at an absolute push, defend himself against an aggressor.

 

[Shaz82]

Yes, I think I would avoid them for a bit, let everyone calm down, maybe they are worried about how they reacted and will be happy to talk to you about it later but I would not be happy with the man for a start.

I can't imagine Toffee being aggressive especially to the point of having to be manhandled by this man, who I think totally misinterpreted the situation. You'd think that looking after other peoples dogs they would have (or have to have) some idea of dog communication, behaviour and body language.

These things happen so quickly though and to all of us, try not to worry about it, Toffee seems fine and that's the main thing.

 

[HAH]

I keep thinking about going and talking to them because it is a small village, but from their attitude yesterday I’m pretty certain they will still insist he was aggressive

I’m going to avoid them for the moment, I don’t trust myself not to get upset if I try and talk to them

Do you know where they live? I wonder if it's worth writing it down and posting a card through their door - putting your position, saying why you're upset, and maybe inviting them to get in touch. It feels like you need to say your piece and make sure that you and Toffee are fairly represented - I think that's how I'd feel - and this gives you a non-confrontational way to get it across without it having to be in person, which is a lot more vulnerable.

I completely get the small village thing, and particularly since you've always had a good relationship in the past this feels like it might help everyone. I try to think about how much we don't know about other people's lives - he might have had a horrible diagnosis that morning, or a friend died or etc. etc. which led to him acting in a completely uncharacteristic way. It might give him the opportunity to explain, and maybe even an opening to apologise - or there might be no reply at all. But at least you'd know you'd had a chance to set the record stright for you and Toffee.

Having said all of this, it's not your responsibility to do anything more, but it might make you feel better.

 

[SteffiS]

You'd think that looking after other peoples dogs they would have (or have to have) some idea of dog communication, behaviour and body language.

Exactly this, and would be able to recognise what was going on especially as they know Toffee as well.

@HAH yes, I know where they live, such a small village most people have a good idea where everyone lives. I hadn’t thought about the note thing, I don’t know if that’s the right approach, one or two village spats have played out on Facebook and I would hate that to happen with this.

 

[Cath]

I hadn’t thought about the note thing,

Never put anything in writing @SteffiS, that is what my lawyer son has told me x

 

[David]

There seems to be a lot of this about particularly since lockdown and the explosion of people getting dogs and not bothering to take on board dog normal behaviour. Although the couple you describe are obviously not novice dog owners. I've had exactly this problem with Poppy and I feel I can empathise completely with the worrying about the incident. All very annoying really. One side thinks the dog is aggressive when in reality it's just exuberance, and a confident dog - it doesn't help if one's own dog is noisy (ie growly) with it, as Poppy is.

The thing I find really the most annoying is that my dog ends up with a reputation that's really not deserved.

Well done not losing it with the other two even in the face of provocation when they were manhandling Toffee. I did lose it on one occasion and said I'd flatten the bloke if he tried to kick my dog again - that didn't help the situation although the man did stop lashing out with his foot!

I've no idea whether this is correct or not, but it seems to me that normal dogs will avoid fighting because it's in their interests not to get hurt. I also think they are more civilised than that and they sort things out between them without resorting to damage. A couple of times Poppy has been accused of biting the other dog and on both occasions there has been zero evidence of a bite anywhere - just a bit of spit on one of the occurrences. In my view the "incident" was just play fighting or boxing.

None of this seems to help though, because "they" are always "right" and it's one's own dog at fault. I've ended up just moving on. Nearly all the people who thought Poppy was a problem dog now say how much she has calmed down and how well behaved she is now. NO! She's just grown up a bit and lost interest in your dogs.

Toffee will have forgotten about the incident already - especially because as far as he was concerned it wasn't an incident at all.

 

[SteffiS]

Never put anything in writing @SteffiS, that is what my lawyer son has told me x

This did occur to me.

Toffee will have forgotten about the incident already - especially because as far as he was concerned it wasn't an incident at all.

Very accurately summed up . It’s only the humans who are having a problem with this now.

I have decided - no note, no approaching them to discuss it, a judicious amount of avoiding them on walks in the near future. And that’s it, although if they did approach me about it I will reiterate the boisterous labrador play aspect and mention their inappropriate handling of someone else’s dog.

 

[SwampDonkey]

In my experience I keep well away and have nothing go do with this sort of person. I usual find out who they are, where the live and what time they are walking and avoid them. Toffee is just a normal dog. There are people who get that and people who don't. It's usually a lot of noise and nothing happens most of us just apologize and move on. Sounds like one of this dogs might have issues and people like him often think attack is the best form of defence.i would ask a few other dog walkers in the area you might find he's well known for abusing other peoples dogs.im sorry you and Toffee got treated like this you are both really lovely. it happens a lot round here and I think David's right there's a lot of people with dogs who haven't taken the trouble to find out how dogs really are.