Toffee’s Deer Chasing Training

[SteffiS]

Today was Toffee's last 121 training session for a while. I've decided to take a break so that I can concentrate on practising all the strategies I've been taught as there are a lot of things that need quite a bit of work. I also want to take some time to visit family which is difficult when I've got a weekly commitment plus all the training needed in-between . Hopefully we'll get a place on the monthly gundog training starting at the end of this month which will practise some of the things we've been taught plus add in some extra bits.

Over the last 3 weeks we've had to address further challenges with Toffee the most predominant of these being his excitement levels. He recognises the journey on the ferry and is in a state of anticipation by the time we meet up with Katy, to the point of needing the first 20 minutes of an hour lesson to calm down. Then of course he gets tired very quickly as he's been so excited, bit of a catch 22 when it comes to training.

The flirt pole has been quite a success, we've added a more exciting lure to the end and the training is to get Toffee to sit when he sees any movement. At the moment we don't let him touch the flirt pole, this is something to move on to in the next block of training.
Katy introduced a place board to get him ready for gundog training but also to help with his stop whistle as he still tends to creep back towards me. She has also given me other strategies to help with stop when he is not facing me, which I need to practise.
The lotus ball was less of a success, at training he would retrieve it and give it to Katy for her to open and feed him the treat. However he would not return it to my hand at all, I was lucky if he even nudged it part way to me and then he started chewing it to try and get the treat out himself. We've practised a lot at home with the lotus ball this week with little or no success so that is being put on hold for a while and Katy has given me another strategy to try and get Toffee to hold and then return to hand.

Overall I think 121 training has been a great success, I've enjoyed it and I certainly know Toffee has. I've seen big improvements in his concentration on me and although his excitement levels have been through the roof at times I now have a range of things to get his attention back to me.

I also now appreciate that, for all his faults, how quickly Ripple would 'cotton on' when I was training him. Over the years I've taught him a whole range of things, such as touching various discs, standing on yoga pods, dancing his feet, and a little routine to The Grand Old Duke of York, and a mass of other random things as well as all the formal training he's had. He's a very bright boy but of course only tends to do things when he wants to. Toffee is the total opposite, eager to please but sometimes I wonder whether I will ever get him to understand what I want him to do.

I'm looking forward to practising at home for a few weeks knowing I've still got Katy as back up for any problems I encounter. Hopefully we can return to 121 lessons in a couple of months ready for a whole new set of challenges.

 

[Jelinga]

@SteffiS, have you tried, when life is quiet in the evening, just sitting Toffee in front of you (you can be sitting on the sofa) and get him to hold the Lotus ball, or even an ordinary ball or any item, then take it off him and reward, give back, take off and reward. So you are starting at the end of the retrieve.

 

[SteffiS]

Thank you for your suggestion but it would appear that the 'hold' is the problem @Jelinga he just won't hold anything apart from his ball which he likes to carry but drops on the ground when he approaches me.
Katy's assessment is that this probably started when he was a puppy and completely ball obsessed, all my concentration was on stopping the obsession (by using 2 balls) and I missed out on the return to hand and inadvertently taught him to drop rather than hold. So another human error not a dog one .
The strategy now is to use a box, put a toy inside, reward for touching and gradually move towards him picking it up and taking it out of the box and, hopefully, dropping it in my hand as I click and treat.

 

[Atemas]

Overall I think 121 training has been a great success, I've enjoyed it and I certainly know Toffee has.

That’s such a positive read @SteffiS

 

[kateincornwall]

I was about to say the same as @Atemas , you really making a massive effort , well done to you for your dedication xxx

 

[Naya]

I think you have come far with him. Harley won’t carry anything to me either, and I’ve tried for the past 8 and a bit years! She loves training too and when she was younger would go nuts for the first 10-15 mins whenever we went to agility, gundog training or any sort of class. I have realised that I need to not expect so much from her, but encourage her with things she likes doing (as long as it’s not ignoring me or running off with my slippers!)

 

[Granca]

Well done, @SteffiS. Your perseverance is paying off.

 

[Selina27]

@SteffiS , it sounds as if you've really enjoyed this training and so has Toffee from what you say.
It will probably do you both good to have a break for a while , sometimes I think that it allows what has been learnt to sink in and resurface later, to be added onto.
Cassie didn't have delivery to hand, but while I decided to drop most formal gundog training I carried on quietly working on it just simply as fun , and now she is really good at loking for my hand to put things in! So it can be taught at any age. She's so much more like Ripple than Toffee, I don't think she gives a monkey's about pleasing me but that's not to say she doesn't enjoy working and interacting with me because she most definitely does

 

[Atemas]

Red has learnt delivery to hand through playing ‘find the fish’. I tried for ages to train in other ways - nope she was not in the least bit interested. She has transferred this to other things - not reliably but good enough for me

 

[SteffiS]

Red has learnt delivery to hand through playing ‘find the fish’. I tried for ages to train in other ways - nope she was not in the least bit interested. She has transferred this to other things - not reliably but good enough for me

That’s interesting to know, I’ll add that to my list of things to try, hopefully something will get Toffee there in the end .

 

[David]

Thank you for your suggestion but it would appear that the 'hold' is the problem @Jelinga he just won't hold anything apart from his ball which he likes to carry but drops on the ground when he approaches me.

I had a similar problem with Poppy. I actually can't play with her outside with a tennis ball as it sends her straight back to square one when she was rewarded with a ball when she was with the police. With a dummy she initially would not hold one at all so we started by offering it to her and if she opened her mouth treat and "good girl". Once she'd started to hold it we moved on to hold while walking on the lead and treat when she released on request and then sat. She seemed to get the idea pretty quickly. (Moving on to bringing the dummy back on a retrieve is another story! )

 

[SteffiS]

We haven’t progressed to anything like a dummy yet but we are having some success with the box method of teaching hold. I chopped up an old canvas type bag so we were starting with something completely different, at the moment we’re just using a rolled up bit of it but I have enough to mock up a dummy by sewing it up and stuffing it with old socks (all posh stuff here ).

We are booked for gun dog training on the 24th so I hope we’ve made enough progress by then but I do have a few days away in London next week and I don’t think OH will be doing any training. I'm also still struggling with the place board at the moment but I keep hoping Toffee will have a moment.
And like you @David I can’t imagine how we will move on to the actual retrieve.