Velcro dog

Natalie

Natalie

So, we seem to have created a treat mugging monster šŸ˜ˆ. I know this is something that many people dream of, so I'm not stating this as a particular problem, but it was so obvious on our walk today and I got a bit fed up with it towards the end.

We went through the local woods (admittedly on a route we haven't done for at least a year) and met no one at all in over an hour. I've always made a point of rewarding Monty every time he comes back to my side and continue to do it now even if it's just a piece of kibble or half a gravy bone. But honestly, he easily spent 20 minutes of the walk glued to our sides, waiting for a treat, even nudging our hands at times if we didn't pay up.

And I'm not saying his recall is perfect, by any means, it's pretty good but playing with another dog will often give him deaf ears. Should I rein in the treats a bit, or just be pleased that he's not a running -away type dog? He's clearly training me here to get the food.
 
Atemas

Atemas

UK Tour Guide
Location
North Cambridgeshire
I have a similar ā€˜problemā€™. My evening on lead walk started when Red was a puppy and I treated her for walking on a loose lead by my side. She will now walk most the time glued to my side looking up ā€˜adoringlyā€™ at me - at least thatā€™s how it appears to any observer šŸ˜‰. She craftily mugs me if she thinks she should be getting a treat (just kibble). I know I have created this as recently I have accompanied F on the lunchtime off lead walks - she will stick to his side if he wants her there and no treats. She doesnā€™t expect it and doesnā€™t get it unless he thinks she should have a treat - usually when she has gone back on lead for the final bit to home, then she gets a treat.

i know I should be weaning her off the habit in the evening and plan to - just not sure when
 
Joy

Joy

Location
East Sussex
One thing you could do is, when Monty comes back to your side, to throw a treat away from you. That way he will get the enjoyment of searching. You can make it easy at first and gradually increase the distance you throw it, or throw it into undergrowth. So the return to your side triggers another treat throw.
I do this with Molly but, as she is a greedy little piggy, I have taught her that when I throw a treat she only gets another thrown if she returns to my side and my hand is in my 'heel' position. Then quite often we do a few turns at heel before I throw another. After a few throws and returns I throw a last one and as she returns I clap and make a fuss of her (and sometimes get out a ball or toy) but it means she knows the treats have stopped for a while.
I'd be pleased that Monty wants to be with you but play some games or do little tricks with him to keep it varied on your walks.
 
Charlie

Charlie

Location
Argyll & Bute, Scotland
If it's any concellation Hattie is 12 years old and still does this. Nudging my hand if I dare to neglect treating her! I do as @Joy has suggested but still she returns to my side. Sometimes a few ball throws but to be honest it doesn't really make that much difference. When enough is enough I say "go play" and off she trots for a bit. Although I am happy to have her walking along by my side because, I enjoy it and frankly it's where a dog should be unless you have cued otherwise. Charlie on the other hand .... :facepalm: xx
 
Stacia

Stacia

Location
Malvern Worcestershire
Rourke is an absolute pain, when we start the walk, he walks in front of me sniffing and doing dog things as soon as I turn to return home, he starts mugging me either for the tennis ball or a treat and stands in front of me, with little jumps up, it drives me mad! Over engagement!
 
Emily_Babbelhund

Emily_Babbelhund

Mama Red HOT Pepper
Location
Regensburg, Germany
Carbon is a treat mugger, too. I often wonder if I've overdone it when he is glued to my side on off-lead walks because he is so fixated on getting his 'check in' treat. On the other hand, his recall is shameful if something more exciting than sausage (like a ball or other dog) is on offer.

In other words: while I have no wisdom to offer, I feel your pain. :facepalm:
 
Selina27

Selina27

Location
Herefordshire, UK
@Natalie , I think you have really good advice from @Joy, I do that sort of thing with Cassie when I want her close by me and these days there are times when she comes and walks by my side in anticipation, which for myself I find pleasing as I have worked hard on this. While she's not an absconder by any means, as I've said elsewhere she loves to hunt, so in her case a bit of velcro is no bad thing :).

I sometimes do "magic hands" as we are walking along, or even throw treats so she has to catch them, perhaps that wouldn't be good for Monty though. Maybe giving him something to do, so that he has to "earn" his reward would help.
Do you have a release cue? Something that says to him that it's his free time, that he doesn't have to stay by your side?
I used to say "go and play", but these days I usually use "lets go". Maybe that would help.
 
Natalie

Natalie

it's good to know I'm not alone in this, thanks for your replies.
I do throw treats on walks, but have never done it as the 'reward' for coming back to me, so I will try it @Joy - I think what I'm going to have to be strict on is making it a 1 treat thing, and just ignore those big brown eyes staring up at me. I do sometimes use a cue - just 'go on' when I want him to walk in front of me but I should probably use this more consistently every time. He's not really motivated by toys - we occasionally tug, do but this is always inside, never out on a walk.
 
Emily

Emily

Location
Melbourne, Australia
Boogie said:
I show Tatze two empty hands to let her know that no more treats are forthcoming. :nod:
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Haha I do that too. I feel like a blackjack dealer most of the time šŸ˜

@Natalie I think you need a Nathan :nod:. I used to have the same problem with Ella but, now that Nathan rides a little way ahead of us on his bike, Ella will happily trot along with him and then pop back to me every now and then for a treat.
 
Natalie

Natalie

Joy said:
You could do other activities that don't use toys. Things like send him around objects (trees, bins etc.) or paws up on low objects (like tree stumps).
Click to expand...
We do a litle bit of this, there's some interesting wooden play equipment in a nearby park which are perfect for weaving, and paws up, etc.
 
snowbunny

snowbunny

Location
Andorra and Spain
Some dogs are just more velcroey than others. Squidge is a lot more than W&S. Part of this is down to a huge early reinforcement history, and part that she isnā€™t anywhere near as hunt-oriented as they are, so her environment has less pull. She would far rather be doing stuff with me than following rabbit scent. I understand it can be frustrating when you need to switch off your brain, and you want them to entertain themselves, but itā€™s really just back to the old adage that reinforcement drives behaviour. If the history of reinforcement is with you, the dog will stay with you. If the dog doesnā€™t actually find the environment that reinforcing, they are even more likely to stay with you.
If you want something different, you have to first define what it is, and then build towards that. Denise Fenzi actually posted one of her ā€œtalks with Raikaā€ on this subject recently. Iā€™ll see if I can dig it out :)
 
snowbunny

snowbunny

Location
Andorra and Spain
Here:

8/15/17
Mom: We need to have a talk about auto check-ins on your walks.
Raika: Sure, what's on your mind?
Mom: You cannot walk at my side eating and then ask for another cookie. You need to leave. Part of the definition of auto check-in is that you go away before you come back.
Raika: Wouldn't that mean I would get fewer snacks?
Mom: That's kind of the point. Today you were just eating. I take you on walks so that you can sniff and wander, too. I think we have to get back to our original criteria. You go off and be a dog, and then you get a cookie for coming back.
Raika: What are the criteria for being a dog?
Mom: What?
Raika: You said I have to go off and be a dog and then come back to get a cookie. Iā€™m just not clear on what I have to do.
Mom: Itā€™s not that specific. Just go off and do dog things.
Raika: Your criteria are go off and do ā€œdog thingsā€? And youā€™re a famous dog trainer? The bar must be pretty low in that field.
Mom: Fine. Let that part go. Just go away and come back later.
Raika: All right. How long do I have to be away before I come back to meet the criteria for a snack?
Mom: Now youā€™re being difficult.
Raika: Well, itā€™s helpful if I know your exact definition of ā€œleaveā€ and ā€œcome backā€. Do you mean five seconds? Twenty seconds? A minute? Or heaven forbid, more than that?
Mom: I was sort of thinking about a minute.
Raika: That seems a little thin for a reinforcement schedule, don't you think?
Mom: I think a minute between snacks is pretty good. We're out there for about 90 minutes. That's ninety snacks!
Raika: I see. You've thought this through, haven't you?
Mom: A little.
Raika: Are you willing to count?
Mom: Count?
Raika: Yes, count. For example, one, two, three, four, you get the idea. Counting. That way, when I hear sixty, I know to come back and get a snack.
Mom: Raika, I am not going to count for the entire walk.
Raika: I'm just not comfortable with this idea that it's ā€œaboutā€ 30 seconds or 40 seconds or 60 seconds. I would find it very disheartening to come back only to discover itā€™s been less than 60 seconds. What if it's 55 seconds? And if you gave me a cookie anyway, then how about 50?
Mom: I'm starting to think we should just leave this issue alone for now.
Raika: Well all right. If youā€™re sure.
 
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