Shadow's reactivity log

Beanwood

Administrator
Firstly thank you so much for sharing Shadow's journey, including all the "not so good" bits along the way.

I am quite interested in Katie's body language from the "get go" to me she is looking a little anxious, but that could be completely out of context as I really don't know Katie at all, or what a normal bimble with a not so familiar dog is like. Notice the left tail bias with her? Could be absolutely nothing of course.

If I am just out with Bramble, and we are doing stuff, like fun games, and really enjoying each other company, she will shout and chase of any dog that comes close, it has been a bit embarrassing at times! She has this conflicted hackle, fake play bow, really high pitched and fast bark, with a step or two towards the other dog. Other dogs owners are fine, commenting "It's OK, my dog needed to be told off" Well personally I don't think it's fine but never mind.
 
This is very interesting, the journey to discover what is triggering Shadow's behaviour.

As far as I can see, at not time does his body language look tense or 'ready for trouble' during that walk out with the other dog. As you have identified, it is as soon as she turns back that he makes an effort to stop her.

Something about all this is very reminding me of our spaniel Max and some of his behaviour which we have never really understood - and he's been gone 9 years. I need to think back over certain things that happened and look again.

You are working SO hard to sort this, I can only admire what you are doing and the efforts of friends helping you.
 
Notice the left tail bias with her?
She holds her tail to her right side, so a right bias? I've just had a quick look at the videos of her playing with Squidge, and the tail was that same side. She has a limp on her back left leg, so the way her tail is held may also have something to do with that. I don't think she's anxious, she's very much like Squidge :D
 

Joy

Location
East Sussex
I don't think anyone could have seen that coming (I certainly wouldn't have predicted it.) I hope that now you think you've identified resource guarding you as the trigger that you can find a way forward. I don't have enough experience to offer suggestions, but I do want to say I admire your honesty and determination.
 

Lisa

Moderator
Location
Alberta, Canada
It’s just so disheartening when something comes out of the blue (or seemingly) like that. Well done you for trying to figure it out. I think you have probably hit the nail on the head in terms of a trigger. I’m interested to see how your plan works. It’s tricky, for sure! I have a lot of admiration for N as well, for allowing you to use your methods in the midst of this. Is Katie unphased by Shadow’s behaviour? Will N have to use another dog?
 
I have looked at it twice and it appears to me that Katie made a move toward Shadow and maybe he thought she was going for him? I would put a muzzle on him and continue to walk with Katie, I find once a dog knows another dog, there is no trouble. If he has a muzzle on, you will feel more relaxed and confident and that will help Shadow. I always feel nervous and I do think that the dogs do pick that up. However, in the video you appeared 'relaxed', but I guess there was underlying tension.
 
Fiona @snowbunny , thanks for sharing this, I've only just had time to read it right through. I'm sure you're right, it is a form of RG. I don't want to digress, but years back my sister had a Lab x collie, who was very family orientated but friendly and outgoing. He did however behave quite differently when her husband was present to when it was just my sister and her girls. My BIL didn't believe her, until one day he was driving home through their village and saw the dog "protecting" his family outside the village shop -- the perpetrator being a neighbour, known to the dog. He never ever bit anyone, but he sure looked like he meant business. He was worse if my nieces, then children were present, not so bad if my sister was there, but didn't do it at all if my BIL was there. (He went completely ballistic in the back of the car once when my sister got stopped for speeding, didn't like that policeman at all!)

I agree with both you and @Cupcase about socialisation, I'd do things very differently if I have another puppy. I don't have quite the same issues, but definitely some around other dogs.
 
Again, I'm posting out of order, but here's a video I took at our previous session before this morning's. I will post the video that helped us diagnose RG later.

I suppose I'd be looking to take heat out of Shadow's need to guard by very slowly building tolerance. So if the RG is only when other dogs approach you, and he's fine with you approaching other dogs - this might be something like Shadow on a boundary next to you; Katie (or other dog) on a boundary next to their human a way away; gradually over time, working on Katie and owner stepping towards you, then returning to the boundary. Monitoring Shadow, and slowing down if he's uncomfortable. Mixing it up with distance, duration and difficulty in terms of breaking the sight line (e.g. a fence), having a different physical orientation to the dog, being higher up, lower down, noise distractions etc. A challenge would be how subtle his indications are, or if he has a very short fuse, but knowing him as well as you do would help with these things. Alongside that would be confidence building games, improving working independently, thinking in arousal - all stuff you do already.
Now I'm ready to post our tactical approach, here are my thoughts on this. Shadow is a dog who learns what is expected of him very quickly, will repeat patterns and will become absorbed in work without it actually helping his emotional state. He will use work as avoidance, switching off from the world around him. So the issue we have with slowly building up the complexity, decreasing distances etc is that all that happens is he learns how to avoid the situation at X distance, and then applies the same at Y. It doesn't give him any coping mechanisms, and doesn't help him therapeutically. He won't look uncomfortable, because he's quite comfortable, in his own little world. Think of it the same as a child who turns up their music on their headphones so they can't hear their parents arguing. The music masks the sound, but doesn't help the child resolve how he feels about it, and if he were to hear an argument without access to the headphones, he'd still feel the same as before.

Instead, my approach has been rather more confrontational, pushing him into situations where he has to deal with his feelings, but giving him a way to do so. So I've been teaching him that when he sees the thing (Luna interacting with another dog), he turns to me. As soon as he does this, he gets the throw of a ball away from the other dogs.
This accomplishes several things:
1. The chase of a ball is his biggest reinforcer, so it reinforces the operant behaviour of turning towards me when he feels uncomfortable.
2. Because he has such strong feelings about his ball, and the interaction will become a predictor of the throw, that will classically condition him to have a positive CER to Luna being with another dog.
3. It sets us up for the next repetition of the approach/behaviour so we can get in more reps.
4. He feels good about moving away from me (something else he RGs) in the presence of another dog.
5. It relieves the pressure of the proximity of the other dog.
6. Very often, the throw of the ball also attracts Luna from the other dog, so he gets the function of his original behaviour fulfilled - if she had a perfect recall and I had enough brainpower to manage everything, I would also recall her every time - but that's setting myself up for failure, so I didn't add that in :)

We started this without Luna, with Shadow in a field without muzzle or long line, and Katie (or one of the other dogs) the other side of a fence. We did parallel walks, head-on approaches and various other scenarios teaching him that coming to heel in that situation got him the ball. We also used me as the resource, with me interacting through the fence with the other dog. It was OK, but he wasn't uncomfortable enough! "What?!", I hear you cry... "don't you want to keep him well inside his comfort zone?". Well, yes and no. It depends on the dog. Shadow doesn't learn anything inside his comfort zone. He wants to ignore other dogs, so is more than happy to do so. We also need to look at what my ultimate goal is here. I don't care one jot if he doesn't like other dogs. I have no need for him to become pally with them. If I thought that would help, I would continue on down that road, but after the sessions we had with Katie, I'm unconvinced that is the right course of action for him. Instead, I need to look at our environment and what I think is achievable. And that is, when we are walking out and about, if he sees another dog, he comes back to me. Whether or not the other dogs are interacting with it. That's all, no more no less. When he sees another dog, he is going to go into a state of heightened arousal, that's just a given. So I need to be able to get him to think when he's in that state, and to pull out an automatic behaviour that is associated with his emotional state. Feel icky = return to me. And that means, working on and around the threshold where he would react, so that he learns the replacement behaviour in that same emotional state. Yes, hopefully the work we're doing will help to raise that threshold, too, but that's not my main focus. My main focus is giving him an alternate behaviour to perform to give him a positive outcome.

So we moved on to a slightly different approach. Our next session (the one in the video), we went out into a big stubble field, with Squidge loose, Katie on lead, and Shadow on a long line, unmuzzled. And I worked on at first calling him to heel when he looked tense, but later just waiting for him to make that choice, and then throwing the ball. He made lots and lots of good choices. He did react a couple of times (trying to run towards Katie, vocalising etc), but that was simply useful information, we moved away and set him up to make a better choice next time. He made far more good choices than bad ones. Bravo, Shads!

We also set up some scenarios with the other dogs (with and without Luna being involved) where they would "appear" into the field without warning from the road below. That also worked pretty well. And, to finish, we had baby GSD Tazzy doing some direct head-on walking, which was difficult for him, but he took on the lessons from earlier and made good decisions.

I'm happy with this approach for now, and have more plans on how to progress it.

 
That's a positive outlook for Shadow. I don't see the need for Shadow to become friends with other dogs, after all my aim for Cupar is just to have him be in the vicinity of other dogs and not react to them.
Thanks again for sharing as this helps me to help Cupar.
 
Glad you have a plan to move forward. Shadow looks fine with this as he obviously loves his chuckit. I can see how I can use Charlie's dumbbell (most favourite toy!) with the same effect, some work to do there but I have been working on this for his running at the gate barking when he sees next doors Collies so I could work up to when we are in the vicinity of other dogs. What does your trainer think and what advise has she given you Fiona? x
 

Emily_Babbelhund

Mama Red HOT Pepper
I'm just catching up with all of this. I knew Shadow and Katie had had an episode, but hadn't seen the video and write up yet. Echoing @Beanwood and others in thanking you for sharing this. Also kudos to you and Katie's human for handling the altercation so calmly. I aspire to that sort of reaction but am not there yet.

Completely off topic (typical me): but in that last video where the sun is setting behind the hills, all I could think of was, "Aren't they getting eaten alive by mosquitos?!" That time of evening in Spain is NOT my friend, no matter how much bug spray I bathe in.
 

Joy

Location
East Sussex
This looks as if it's working well. What do you envisage happening in a real-life situation, where an unknown off-lead dog may run to you as well when you recall Shadow?
 
Completely off topic (typical me): but in that last video where the sun is setting behind the hills, all I could think of was, "Aren't they getting eaten alive by mosquitos?!" That time of evening in Spain is NOT my friend, no matter how much bug spray I bathe in.
This was first thing in the morning, so no. We don’t normally get many mosquitoes here anyway, although there have been more here this year than usual. It’s quite safe to sit out in the evenings without fear of being bitten, though, unless you’re by the river.

This looks as if it's working well. What do you envisage happening in a real-life situation, where an unknown off-lead dog may run to you as well when you recall Shadow?
Firstly, I want it to be an automatic recall, without me giving a cue. Most dogs here don’t run up, and we see very few anyway. So for the sort of situation we do encounter, I want him to see the other dog and then just come back. If the other dog were to follow him, and he were closer to it than to me, I wouldn’t expect him (or any dog) to be able to continue to come back. But since he generally doesn’t roam very far from me, hopefully the turn to me will have got him close enough for me to intervene in whatever way is appropriate.
It’s more to help with the situation where another dog appears suddenly and he runs over to it to threat assess. That’s my main focus at the moment.
 
I haven’t sorted out videos from our last few sessions yet, but on Thursday we had another; our first in a couple of weeks because both N and I have been busy. Because of the break, I wanted to keep the session easyish for him, but on the other hand, I’ve managed to do some little bits with him and was confident that he could still move forwards.
So we adopted the same technique as before; him on a long line with Katie on a lead and Squidge running free.

He was so much better this time. There was no sign of reactivity from him. At no point during this did his hackles go up. One time he moved towards them and looked interested, but then chose to come back to me. I think he was actually more interested in the food N was handing out 😁

We mixed it up as we walked, with Katie being behind us as well as in front and to the side. S normally worries more with dogs behind him, but he remained quite relaxed, even with Squidge being with Katie.

A great experience, I’m very happy.

After this, I walked him along the path next to the penned dogs while Squidge was able to approach. He dealt with Etna, the female Mali, very well, but was a bit more concerned by the Akita, Hatchi. Not surprising as he always finds this sort of dog difficult, and the body language was quite challenging. Still, no vocalisation, no lunging, just slightly raised hackles, and he was able to come away when called.

Finally, we did some work with Jackson, a male Mali. Shadow found this harder again, but that’s not surprising given he’s an unfamiliar male who was staring very intently at him from an unnatural position. Shadow was up on his toes, although hackles remained down. He started sniffing an awful lot as a form of avoidance but I’m ok with that - it’s appropriate behaviour that communicates he’s no threat to the other dog, and relieves tension.

All in all, a lovely session.

(Long video, here for the record rather than expecting anyone to watch).
 

HAH

Moderator
Location
Devon, UK
This is so great to read @snowbunny , and one of the most encouraging things I think is the consistency in improvement - it sounds like Shadow is really responding better in all of those situations. The long line walk with Katie and Squidge seems particularly heartening as it sounds as if you feel you were in control and understanding what was going on with him the whole way through. Definitely a thing to celebrate - you’ve worked so hard on this with Shadow and it’s clearly paying off.
 
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