Sorry you’re feeling under the weather Fiona. Just chipping in to agree with the others - be nice to yourself; try to be as kind and patient with yourself as you are with your dogs. This is a huge change for dogs and humans both, and it will take a little while until it all shakes into place.
Andorra challenges
- Thread starter snowbunny
- Start date
Bleurgh, that’s miserable - sorry you’re feeling peelywally @snowbunny, and a low mood is a rubbish accompaniment . I hope you find a good villa to keep you going through the lurgy; we stayed here pre-Kipper: Holiday at La Célibataire at Gif-sur-Yvette, in Essonne, France | The Landmark Trust It was glorious with a lovely big garden with a stream running through it, but I don’t remember how well fenced it was, and didn’t have my dog sensors well-honed at that point. V quiet with a brilliant boulangerie in the village 
Emily_Babbelhund
Mama Red HOT Pepper
- Location
- Regensburg, Germany
Sorry you're feeling ick...that's kind of a one-two punch with everything else. 
Where were you thinking geography-wise for May?
Where were you thinking geography-wise for May?
- Location
- Andorra and Spain
Anywhere in Spain, or southern end of France. Geography is less important than not having to worry about alert barking, other dogs etc. Preferably no neighbours at all! I’m so anti-socialSorry you're feeling ick...that's kind of a one-two punch with everything else.
Where were you thinking geography-wise for May?
On the plus side, I’ve had loads of people offering up stooge dogs for Shadow to meet. Lots of bitches which he’s good with, but I can still work with for his on-lead reactivity, and any positive meetings of unfamiliar dogs will be good for him. So that will be very useful once we have all settled in a bit.
Sorry you're feeling so pants. Hope things improve and you feel better soon.
Emily_Babbelhund
Mama Red HOT Pepper
- Location
- Regensburg, Germany
I've not rented anyplace personally that was really no neighbours, so can't think of anything that I've actually stayed in to recommend. I loved Asturias around Llanes - beautiful mountains and beaches and not crowded in May. I remember seeing some dog-friendly cottages listed that I didn't pick as they were too isolated for me, but may tick your boxes.Anywhere in Spain, or southern end of France. Geography is less important than not having to worry about alert barking, other dogs etc. Preferably no neighbours at all! I’m so anti-social
- Location
- Herefordshire, UK
Fiona @snowbunny , sorry you're up against it, hope things improve soon xx
Sorry to hear things are tricky at the moment! I was just wondering about the scatter approach. The Pig is a bit reactive towards unexpected or sudden people, and does a lot of alert barking at people walking past the house (which has reduced me to tears recently when two-leggy Willow has just gone to sleep). If we both hear a noise I mark and throw her a kibble before she barks and that works well, but it is tricky to get there before the first bark sometimes. But I was of the impression that if I scattered kibbles after she barked, it would always be rewarding a single alert bark? Would that approach ever fade the first bark?
- Location
- Andorra and Spain
Well, you need to think of what motivates the barking. Is it an operant behaviour? That is, one that the dog actually chooses to do? Or is it more like a reflex?
Consider this: you are suddenly startled and you shout out a swear word. Was that shout something you consciously decided to do? Would reinforcing or punishing change how often it happened in the future?
In this situation, I’m focusing more on classical conditioning (changing the feels) than operant conditioning (reinforcing or punishing behaviour). Once the feelings have been changed, the behaviour won’t demonstrate.
So I want the trigger that is startling the dog to become a cue that something good is about to happen. Over time, this means the dog will start looking to me (or the floor!) for treats when he experiences that trigger. And once the emotional response (barking) to the trigger has gone, you can stop using the treats because there is no longer any need.
Marking and treating before the bark (assuming the dog has still seen the trigger) can work, but you have to be there and vigilant all the time. It’s also likely that it’s working mainly through classical conditioning (changing the feels) than operant conditioning (working on behaviours the dog is choosing to perform).
For a hunty dog like The Pig, I reckon that snuffling out a handful of treats on the floor will change those feels a lot more quickly than a single treat given straight to her.
If you can get in first, before she reacts at all (but after she’s seen the trigger), great, but don’t beat yourself up about it. You can’t sit at the window with her all day
I’m feeling a bit better today; weak from not eating but I don’t hurt as much anymore, which is a bonus, and the hot-and-cold seems to have gone, so good news there. And the dogs have completely ignored a few loud noises they would have reacted to a couple of days back. Plus an uneventful morning walk, so that helped, too. No nervous barking from W&S towards the people on the street or garage, which is one of their problem places. Still a long way to go but not feeling so down in the dumps this morning!
Glad you are feeling better! And thank you for the explanation, it’s clear now! I did the scatter thing to change the association with fireworks and it worked really well - she didn’t really get upset at all this year. Ok takes the pressure off a bit if I am not trying to preempt the first bark!
- Location
- Malvern Worcestershire
Glad you feel a wee bit better and that the dogs are more relaxed. What were they like in Andorra before you went to Spain? If you didn't have this behaviour before I guess they will settle back into what they were; they have had to make a major adjustment.
- Location
- Andorra and Spain
Shadow was always an alert barker, but I hadn’t really started working on it until last season. They both also used to bark at people in the street, and of course, Shadow has been reactive to other dogs for a long time, especially on lead, so these aren’t unexpected behaviours, they have just regressed because of the sudden change, decreasing their tolerance. That’s why I wanted to come back a couple of weeks before Christmas, so I could do some habituation before silly season arrived. But it was not to be, so now it is what it is.
They would always bark a couple of times even when J came home, but we’ve had a couple of instances where they’ve not reacted at all. Last time, Willow walked away from the door and over to me for her scatter
So, yes, progress, but hardly a relaxing Christmas period!
Boogie
Moderator
- Location
- Manchester UK
Good to see some progress.
It’s hard when hoped for relaxing times are anything but.
It’s hard when hoped for relaxing times are anything but.
Emily_Babbelhund
Mama Red HOT Pepper
- Location
- Regensburg, Germany
Glad you are feeling a bit better, hopefully food again soon too?
Interesting explanation about the classical vs. operant conditioning. I am interpreting it in my case that there's hope that I won't be always tossing cookies at Carbon every time we walk by a dog that sets him off!
Interesting explanation about the classical vs. operant conditioning. I am interpreting it in my case that there's hope that I won't be always tossing cookies at Carbon every time we walk by a dog that sets him off!
- Location
- Andorra and Spain
Had a couple of satsumas earlier. The thought of “real” food is still
With reactivity, I think it’s better when you can to avoid him reaching that arousal point where he tips into the big behaviours. If you can control it, don’t let it happen. With stuff out of your control (noises made outside, people walking past the house etc), it’s impractical (if not impossible) to prevent the reaction. My go-tos with the leash reactivity are immediate about-turn, or sticking a handful of food on his nose to transition him to another place to give us the space he can stay under his reactivity threshold. If you can distract him when another passes, that’s useful for those situations which are out of your control, but I do prefer to separate management from therapy because you can make progress faster if the dog never feels he needs to react. Of course, your lifestyle means you’re coming across other dogs in busy urban areas a lot more frequently, so it does come down to ideals vs practicality
- Location
- Argyll & Bute, Scotland
Sorry you are feeling so unwell Fiona. I hope you feel better really soon. xx
Emily_Babbelhund
Mama Red HOT Pepper
- Location
- Regensburg, Germany
Yes, we do a combo of the above. Many times doing an about turn isn't practical so I've just gotten to the point of slapping a treat on his nose and barreling through.
With a treat on his nose, he reacts to NOTHING. Thank goodness for his Labragreediness, I guess?
He does have days where he's cool as a cucumber and simply looks up to me for his "see the puppy' treat and keeps walking, so there's hope. On a normal 45 minute 'wee' walk, we probably go by 10 dogs on the narrow streets, so at least we got lots of practice in.
- Location
- East Sussex
Glad you feel a bit better Fiona, and hope you recover more quickly now.