- Location
- Canada
She really has! And not even 6m yet....it wouldn't surprise me if she hits 100lb..Wow she really has grown!!
She and Shamas share a wardrobe now lol
Angel. Born June 30th.
- Thread starter Shamas mom
- Start date
She and Shamas share a wardrobe now lol
Atemas
UK Tour Guide
- Location
- North Cambridgeshire
She’s lovely 
- Location
- The Hague, The Netherlands
She is lovely. I love those expressive ears
- Location
- Canada
Hang on.....must put the angel on the tree....
Lol
Lol
- Location
- Canada
Gah! If it's not one thing it's another with this pup
My eldest ordered new York fries loaded poutine and shared it out. Then left the portions on the counter.
I took mine to the computer and a minute later heard suspicious shuffling....angel stealing. She should have been in the back hall where I left her.
And off we go to the vet for a dose of activated charcoal to negate the effects of spring onion toppings. Guess who's not happy about that bill?
I've already paid one emergency vet bill. I'm not paying this one. Not after going nearly 3grand in debt in a month on a cat who got bone cancer and had to be put down yesterday....I'm still sorting through the final arrangements....
My eldest ordered new York fries loaded poutine and shared it out. Then left the portions on the counter.
I took mine to the computer and a minute later heard suspicious shuffling....angel stealing. She should have been in the back hall where I left her.
And off we go to the vet for a dose of activated charcoal to negate the effects of spring onion toppings. Guess who's not happy about that bill?
I've already paid one emergency vet bill. I'm not paying this one. Not after going nearly 3grand in debt in a month on a cat who got bone cancer and had to be put down yesterday....I'm still sorting through the final arrangements....
Jacqui-S
Moderator
- Location
- Fife, Scotland
So sorry 
- Location
- Canada
I don't even know how to feel...I could have saved the debt, and put him down at the start....but he wasn't suffering then and we knew it was aggressive. He wouldn't last till Christmas. It was in his face, so we could treat him with pain meds week by week and say goodbye when he crashed. He crashed on Sunday into Monday. Stopped eating, asked for pain injection and got clingy. Then hid. We knew. Called and told them it's time.
We had him scheduled for Wednesday anyway.....knew from the rapid growth he'd not make it over Christmas....even Angel knew to treat him extremely gently
We had him scheduled for Wednesday anyway.....knew from the rapid growth he'd not make it over Christmas....even Angel knew to treat him extremely gently
- Location
- Malvern Worcestershire
@Shamas mom, I am so sorry about your cat, vets' fees are very expensive, but you did all you could for your cat and I think that is important xxx
- Location
- Isle of Man
Sorry for your loss. He told you he was ready and you helped him xx
- Location
- Canada
No ill effects in Angel from her latest escapade. Aside from black smudges in her fur from the Charcoal lol.
she's definitely becoming a teenager....she's taken to leaping on Shamas' back to chew on his ears. and yesterday she chewed on the mattress. We're using her muzzle to prevent inappropriate chewing/biting. about a minute of muzzle work each time she uses her teeth inappropriately/destuctively.
the muzzle time is paired with training, so that it's part prevention, part distraction. Just enough to stop her from doing damage while we teach her better, less Bitey ways to play. I have no problem with her going to town on a bully stick....I take issue with her destroying furniture.
She was trained to the muzzle a few weeks ago, with peanut butter and cream cheese inside of it--so you can see her stop and think when we stop her and slide it on----she goes eyes on us, waiting for the next step. What's coming? The next step is to teach her to take a treat through the gaps. It's a Baskerville S4, so there's a gap in front of her mouth for treats....Took Shamas a couple of weeks to get the hang of taking treats with his on.
she's definitely becoming a teenager....she's taken to leaping on Shamas' back to chew on his ears. and yesterday she chewed on the mattress. We're using her muzzle to prevent inappropriate chewing/biting. about a minute of muzzle work each time she uses her teeth inappropriately/destuctively.
the muzzle time is paired with training, so that it's part prevention, part distraction. Just enough to stop her from doing damage while we teach her better, less Bitey ways to play. I have no problem with her going to town on a bully stick....I take issue with her destroying furniture.
She was trained to the muzzle a few weeks ago, with peanut butter and cream cheese inside of it--so you can see her stop and think when we stop her and slide it on----she goes eyes on us, waiting for the next step. What's coming? The next step is to teach her to take a treat through the gaps. It's a Baskerville S4, so there's a gap in front of her mouth for treats....Took Shamas a couple of weeks to get the hang of taking treats with his on.
- Location
- Canada
Muzzle work lol. Peanut butter bribe. She's completely focused on stuffing her face in it
- Location
- Canada
LOL I just let the dogs out, and Shamas went at the fence...angel took one look, and Leaped on his head! Hard to be the neighborhood loudmouth with a puppy your size standing on your head lol!
She likes the dog next door, and didn't much like Shamas being grumpy at her.....Her solution: DISTRACTION.
I mean, it makes sense...it's how we deal with her bad behavior lol! Hey! Look here! Great, now stop that and play this game instead. That's exactly what she did to Shamas in the time it took me to cross the 8 feet from the door to the fence. He was so distracted, I got him calmly into the house lol
She likes the dog next door, and didn't much like Shamas being grumpy at her.....Her solution: DISTRACTION.
I mean, it makes sense...it's how we deal with her bad behavior lol! Hey! Look here! Great, now stop that and play this game instead. That's exactly what she did to Shamas in the time it took me to cross the 8 feet from the door to the fence. He was so distracted, I got him calmly into the house lol
- Location
- Canada
I'm really guppy with how Christmas with the pack went.
Angel was very excited to start with.....but people and dogs alike gave her something akin to the cold shoulder until she calmed down.....that took about 1/2hour. Praise/petting was only rewarded for calm behavior.
Once she started showing more appropriate greetings, she was integrated into the pack.
Toby spent the first bit sitting in the mud room looking appalled. Chloe retreated to her corner in disgust. As time went on, and angel stopped running around with her crime face on, Toby graduated to the couch and Chloe came out.
Angel tried to come up and was informed by Toby that couches are for big dogs. No puppies allowed. No humans gainsaid...in Toby's house, he sets the dog rules. So she laid on the floor and was praised for laying down
When they went out to the yard, Angel found Toby most receptive to play. She's pretty good at reading a room so was able to get a rise and also diffuse during play.
Chloe's a little harder to win over.....she feels old, and doesn't appreciate Angel's bouncy ways.....it took some army crawling face-licking finesse to win over chlo-belle.
They got balls and treats for Christmas. Toby and Chloe got dentastix
Angel was very excited to start with.....but people and dogs alike gave her something akin to the cold shoulder until she calmed down.....that took about 1/2hour. Praise/petting was only rewarded for calm behavior.
Once she started showing more appropriate greetings, she was integrated into the pack.
Toby spent the first bit sitting in the mud room looking appalled. Chloe retreated to her corner in disgust. As time went on, and angel stopped running around with her crime face on, Toby graduated to the couch and Chloe came out.
Angel tried to come up and was informed by Toby that couches are for big dogs. No puppies allowed. No humans gainsaid...in Toby's house, he sets the dog rules. So she laid on the floor and was praised for laying down
When they went out to the yard, Angel found Toby most receptive to play. She's pretty good at reading a room so was able to get a rise and also diffuse during play.
Chloe's a little harder to win over.....she feels old, and doesn't appreciate Angel's bouncy ways.....it took some army crawling face-licking finesse to win over chlo-belle.
They got balls and treats for Christmas. Toby and Chloe got dentastix
Jacqui-S
Moderator
- Location
- Fife, Scotland
I would count that as a success!
- Location
- Canada
Yes, we're very pleased. we put shamas in the yard for the initial integration. Just to be sure...Toby and Chloe make up the overall pack, but we didn't know if he'd get protective when Toby corrected her the first few times. So we thought it best not to have him in the room. Just in case....there was always the risk that we might be dealing with a 2-pack situation now that Shamas has his own puppy at home.
In the overall pack, it's Toby, Shamas, Chloe in order of dominance. Now Angel is bottom.
The concern was that with him having her at home, the overall pack system might not hold, and he'd correct Toby for correcting Angel.
Since Angel gets away with so much at home, in so far as dog-dog behavior...we wanted her to learn some manners from the pack as a whole without interference. It worked really well
when she was younger, my dad's dogs wouldn't correct her--she was a baby. Now she is as big as they are, so if she's rude, she's getting told. It's a good time to have her around them all as much as possible. I don't want her getting in strange dogs faces and being told by less predictable dogs..
Toby is bossy, but it's a quick in and out verbal with a physical marker. No teeth, just a warning with posturing. That's the best way in my opinion for her to learn. she's quick to take corrections and bounces back immediately.
Once things were stable, treats were handed out. They each took them to different places, as they've been taught. Supper was given to mine at 6pm, because his eat at 6pm. Each again in their own spot. Angel tried poaching, but human intervention with "leave it" put a stop to that.
The biggest challenge we actually faced was my teens' instinct to intervene----I had to stop her from stopping angel, so that the dogs could teach her instead. Today was about givin her a chance to learn from the pack how to behave around dogs. We only intervened twice, when she jumped on shamas to steal. because Shamas doesn't correct, he attempts escape, which only excites her so that she bites his ears
Beanwood
Administrator
It's great that they all appear to be coping together. Just a watchout, be careful that you do not expose Angel to being "corrected" by other dogs.
The thing is, dogs make negative associations when "corrected" with other dogs, they learn that is what other dogs will do, and this can cause stress, and can lead to super sensitive and reactive dogs. It is never a good idea to allow dogs to "teach" other dogs manners, they already know how to communicate with each other. If we put dogs in a situation where they feel they need to "tell off" the other dog, they are already too stressed, and this is when mistakes can happen. Stressed dogs make poor choices because they are not using the "thinking" part of their brain.
The best way is to observe behaviour carefully, keep arousal low and try and provide a quiet, calm space for each dog.
Dogs that are living together harmoniously do not need to "correct" each other. It is difficult when we are with friends and family that have dogs, and they are put in the position of being with other unfamiliar dogs without choice. I get it, sometimes it happens, especially this time of year! Just like humans, some dogs don't "really" get other, and that's OK, just like humans. The problem is that humans have the choice to remove themselves, go to a different room, or leave. We don't generally end up "correcting" each other, if that happens, then everyone feels uncomfortable, emotional and even say things they don't really mean in the heat of the moment.In the overall pack, it's Toby, Shamas, Chloe in order of dominance. Now Angel is bottom.
The concern was that with him having her at home, the overall pack system might not hold, and he'd correct Toby for correcting Angel.
Since Angel gets away with so much at home, in so far as dog-dog behaviour we wanted her to learn some manners from the pack as a whole without interference. It worked really well
The thing is, dogs make negative associations when "corrected" with other dogs, they learn that is what other dogs will do, and this can cause stress, and can lead to super sensitive and reactive dogs. It is never a good idea to allow dogs to "teach" other dogs manners, they already know how to communicate with each other. If we put dogs in a situation where they feel they need to "tell off" the other dog, they are already too stressed, and this is when mistakes can happen. Stressed dogs make poor choices because they are not using the "thinking" part of their brain.
The best way is to observe behaviour carefully, keep arousal low and try and provide a quiet, calm space for each dog.
- Location
- Canada
See, this is a new concept to me.
My family is all of the " let the old dogs teach the young dogs" brand of thinking.
Not that we allow snapping and snarling but we have always had dogs and we believe that the best way for dogs to learn to interact with dogs but to be taught by stable dogs who don't bite. So that when they meet steange dogs, they don't make the kind of mistakes that lead to fights...
Toby and Chloe are stable dogs. They ignore the unwanted behaviors, and reward her positive behaviors with attention and play. Chloe has a look that she gives, then walks off with a huff. Angel learned the look in the first hour, then corrected her own behavior, selecting a more "hands-off" approach instead. Toby also removes himself if she doesn't play nice, only making verbal corrections if she pushes too far.
Her behavior among strangers...at this point....she'd likely get bitten by less stable dogs for being over excited. So we're looking to have her learn to dog with manners before introducing her offleash to other dogs.
My dad's house is calm, and has plenty of side rooms for dogs to remove themselves. So when angel was overecited, they were all able to ignore her while she was attention seeking
My family is all of the " let the old dogs teach the young dogs" brand of thinking.
Not that we allow snapping and snarling but we have always had dogs and we believe that the best way for dogs to learn to interact with dogs but to be taught by stable dogs who don't bite. So that when they meet steange dogs, they don't make the kind of mistakes that lead to fights...
Toby and Chloe are stable dogs. They ignore the unwanted behaviors, and reward her positive behaviors with attention and play. Chloe has a look that she gives, then walks off with a huff. Angel learned the look in the first hour, then corrected her own behavior, selecting a more "hands-off" approach instead. Toby also removes himself if she doesn't play nice, only making verbal corrections if she pushes too far.
Her behavior among strangers...at this point....she'd likely get bitten by less stable dogs for being over excited. So we're looking to have her learn to dog with manners before introducing her offleash to other dogs.
My dad's house is calm, and has plenty of side rooms for dogs to remove themselves. So when angel was overecited, they were all able to ignore her while she was attention seeking
Beanwood
Administrator
OK.. I will leave this here. 
We need to talk less about dogs correcting each other because they don't. Think about it more in terms of dogs asking questions through a myriad of subtle interactions with each other, a lot of these are missed by us mortal humans! Head turn, lip licking, yawning and just moving away are examples. Of course we shouldn't be continually interrupting, but we should have management in place so more vulnerable dogs don't feel the need to escalate ( growling, air snapping, posturing, tense body language) simply in order to get some peace.
Our job as humans is to help our dogs feel safe and secure by closely observing and intervening when necessary to reduce stress, especially in a multi-dog household. We don't need other dogs necessarily to teach our dogs as such, but by creating an environment where they can experience positive and calm interactions with other dogs they learn confidence and the ability to acknowledge and "dismiss" other dogs they meet because their previous experience hasn't created any negative bias associated with them.
You are doing an amazing job, and I love how you are rewarding Angel for her calm behaviour and the fact that visitors understand to give her a bit of space when they enter your home.
We need to talk less about dogs correcting each other because they don't. Think about it more in terms of dogs asking questions through a myriad of subtle interactions with each other, a lot of these are missed by us mortal humans! Head turn, lip licking, yawning and just moving away are examples. Of course we shouldn't be continually interrupting, but we should have management in place so more vulnerable dogs don't feel the need to escalate ( growling, air snapping, posturing, tense body language) simply in order to get some peace.
Our job as humans is to help our dogs feel safe and secure by closely observing and intervening when necessary to reduce stress, especially in a multi-dog household. We don't need other dogs necessarily to teach our dogs as such, but by creating an environment where they can experience positive and calm interactions with other dogs they learn confidence and the ability to acknowledge and "dismiss" other dogs they meet because their previous experience hasn't created any negative bias associated with them.
You are doing an amazing job, and I love how you are rewarding Angel for her calm behaviour and the fact that visitors understand to give her a bit of space when they enter your home.
- Location
- Canada
I'm very pleased with angels ability to "read the room"
She backs off quickly and adjusts to others' comfort levels.
I do think that we will want to work some more with the behavioralist regarding the ability to acknowledge and dismiss though....she just gets so excited about people and dogs.
We were outside tim Horton's and she tried to drag me to say hello to people walking by. It actually concerned a couple, who seemed to think she might be mean..as she gets bigger still, that will become more concerning still.
It's not so bad when walking, mainly at places where people have historically stopped to greet her
She backs off quickly and adjusts to others' comfort levels.
I do think that we will want to work some more with the behavioralist regarding the ability to acknowledge and dismiss though....she just gets so excited about people and dogs.
We were outside tim Horton's and she tried to drag me to say hello to people walking by. It actually concerned a couple, who seemed to think she might be mean..as she gets bigger still, that will become more concerning still.
It's not so bad when walking, mainly at places where people have historically stopped to greet her