Cassie's Gundog training log

[FayRose]

I think you're doing brilliantly and gun dog training is clearly a joy for Cassie, good on'ya x

 

[Selina27]

@Jelinga , one of the home work things this month is practicing stop whistle, by getting her to jump into a "box", loosely interpreted really into anything I might find in the environment. I think then the reward is jumping back out to me. Thing is I think I am to transfer this into our hunting trips, no way will she react if on a rabbit scent so I won't be trying it there yet. But this morning she flushed a pheasant, and turned to look at me. I blew my stop whistle and gave hand signal, after a little confusion she did sit. I was to far away to give food reward, even though she is good at catching. I told her to go back and start hunting again, is that the way to go do you think?
And @Beanwood if you're there.

 

[Beanwood]

Hi @Selina27, well I am not an expert on the stop whistle. I think the stop whistle is pretty tricky to train, I found it quite challenging as you are not exactly rewarding a behaviour you can shape easily. If Bramble had flushed a pheasant and turned to look at me, I would heavily reward that behaviour, literally throwing a party. I don't ask Bramble to sit on the stop whistle, if she pauses and looks at me, then I either give her something rewarding to do or heavily reward her for orientating to me Adding a sit to the stop whistle in my mind adds another cue, which may be why Cassie was a little confused. All I need my dogs to do is just stop and look and me. I must admit to being a little confused by the box thing, but not having seeing the context of the exercise is probably why .

 

[Stacia]

@Jelinga , one of the home work things this month is practicing stop whistle, by getting her to jump into a "box", loosely interpreted really into anything I might find in the environment. I think then the reward is jumping back out to me. Thing is I think I am to transfer this into our hunting trips, no way will she react if on a rabbit scent so I won't be trying it there yet. But this morning she flushed a pheasant, and turned to look at me. I blew my stop whistle and gave hand signal, after a little confusion she did sit. I was to far away to give food reward, even though she is good at catching. I told her to go back and start hunting again, is that the way to go do you think?
And @Beanwood if you're there.

Well done that Cassie stopped to the whistle under great temptation, even if she was slightly confused, but she will now have inkling of what is expected. The stop whistle in my opinion should always be rewarded and you rewarded her by asking her to continue to hunt, but I would have hunted her away from the departing pheasant which you perhaps did. I think expecting them to jump into box is muddying the waters as you will have to be constantly looking for an area that can be thought of as a 'box'. Rourke is very good at the stop whistle (up to this moment! Don't want to tempt fate which I usually do! ) but I cannot really remember how I taught it, most likely with the tennis ball as a reward and possibly sending him for his food, be halfway between him and the food to the side and stop him as he got to me and then to continue to his food as the reward.

 

[Selina27]

Well done that Cassie stopped to the whistle under great temptation,

Well she'd already turned to look at me when I blew the whistle. I think she's getting the idea with pheasants and even deer she will look to me, but not rabbits!

hen I either give her something rewarding to do or heavily reward her for orientating to me

That's what I'm aiming for!

must admit to being a little confused by the box thing, but not having seeing the context of the exercise is probably why .

We did it at training last week, in and out of that little fenced area in the middle of the field. Cassie loved it actually, so she's happy to do it anywhere as a training exercise.

Thanks both for your replies.

 

[snowbunny]

I think using the hunt to reward the stop is great thinking if you had no way of delivering timely reinforcement otherwise. And it's obviously a very powerful reinforcer to her! Just don't do it too often, otherwise you run the risk of her anticipating that your stop means to hunt, and you don't want that
It's brilliant that she paused and turned to you. I guess, if I were planning, I would probably reward that in itself right now if I hadn't blown my whistle. As @Beanwood says, if you blow your whistle when she looks at you and then reward, you're actually reinforcing the behaviour that follows the whistle, not the fact she looked at you.

So my plan might instead be, blow my whistle as soon as the flush happens (which probably means walking with it in your mouth if she has the chance of flushing at any time), and reinforce that heavily, so that you get a snappy response. Then start to delay/fade the whistle as you transition that "old cue" of the whistle to the "new cue" of the flush itself. But, with the plan that, if she hesitates on flushing when you don't have your whistle to hand, reinforce that, as that is the start of the final behaviour you're shaping.

I suppose the box is no different to using a place board for the stop whistle. It'll have to be faded in time, obviously, but for now, it gives a clear place where the behaviour is going to happen, so it allows you to focus on that one part in isolation.

 

[Heidrun]

@Jelinga , one of the home work things this month is practicing stop whistle, by getting her to jump into a "box", loosely interpreted really into anything I might find in the environment. I think then the reward is jumping back out to me. Thing is I think I am to transfer this into our hunting trips, no way will she react if on a rabbit scent so I won't be trying it there yet. But this morning she flushed a pheasant, and turned to look at me. I blew my stop whistle and gave hand signal, after a little confusion she did sit. I was to far away to give food reward, even though she is good at catching. I told her to go back and start hunting again, is that the way to go do you think?
And @Beanwood if you're there.

In this sort of situation I give my dogs the 'Gone Away' cue. It is pretty much the same as 'Leave'. And then follow with the reward which is to hunt on but away from the direction the flushed animal has disappeared to.

 

[Selina27]

In this sort of situation I give my dogs the 'Gone Away' cue. It is pretty much the same as 'Leave'. And then follow with the reward which is to hunt on but away from the direction the flushed animal has disappeared to.

Thank you @Heidrun , that's really helpful.

 

[Selina27]

you run the risk of her anticipating that your stop means to hunt, and you don't want that

Very true, good point.

means walking with it in your mouth if she has the chance of flushing at any time),

Haha yes! I do this, it gets a bit slobbery! I have to be a bit careful, as she will see this and anticipate recall, ping pong recall or any thing she thinks is reward worthy! Less so in a very gamey area though.

 

[Selina27]

Thanks all for your replies.

Yes the idea is to use hunting as the reinforcer. With the aim of interrupting at point of flush, ultimately, I just don't want to muddle things between now and our next training session, so all replies useful.

 

[Selina27]

Yesterday was our third gundog training afternoon. I was able to report that Cassie's retrieving has gone from tentatively trying it once a week to me nearly always having a dummy in my pocket on walks and doing 2 or 3 most days. I've had a couple of new dummies for Christmas so now have a choice to use to give her variety with that as well as the terrain that I pick. It seems to be key for her, and do think that the penny has dropped and she now "gets" the idea that if she brings it back she then has the fun of the search again. I plan to work on using the clicker in the house and garden to improve delivery to hand.

With the hunting, I've had no incidents of her just dashing off since I've started going with her and encouraging her on a scent. She does pick it up and hunt and I've yet to stop her at point of flush - more of that in a mo. I'm careful where I choose to go in the woods, I know roughly what hangs out in which area -- rabbits here, woodcock over there, pheasants by the stream etc and am getting quite good at reading her body language as to what she's onto. Sometimes I've seen something up ahead and try to use that as then I'm one step ahead! I have avoided the field where the hare lives for the time being, as much for it's sake, it's a safe place for it I do believe. She does give chase for a few paces after flush, but usually returns promptly. HP says she's thinking "why the bloody hell haven't you shot the bird I've found for you" and is looking for the retrieve! Whether she is or not, the plan now is to give a retrieve as soon as she comes back to me, so that will be interesting and a positive thing to do.

Because as a group we are all at different stages it was decided yesterday to take a vote on one aspect and concentrate on that, I'm happy to say the stop whistle was chosen which is just what I need! It was discussed at length it's purpose and what it means to the dog. Everyone demonstrated how far they have got which varied enormously and was interesting to see. For me, it became obvious that Cass thinks she should be close to me, so lots of work on building up the distance is my main focus this month.

So 2 things for homework, stop whistle and better delivery to hand.

 

[kateincornwall]

Well done, both of you , I`m glad that the group is going to concentrate on areas you want to work on , but it all sounds good x

 

[FayRose]

This sounds as if you're making really good progress and most importantly, Cassie is having the time of her life

 

[Atemas]

Ooh @Selina27 this is so exciting -fantastic positive stuff.

 

[Cath]

Great work both of you

 

[Beanwood]

Really good stuff! Especially as when she flushes, she runs for a few paces but orientates back to you... Great natural control.

 

[Joy]

I'm enjoying hearing about your training sessions and it sounds as though you're really getting on well. Great stuff!

 

[Stacia]

I am so pleased you are enjoying the gun dog training, I thought Cassie would find her inner retrieving gene

 

[Selina27]

Well!!

We,ve just been out in the woods, I walked up the side were there is a stream following the inner side of the boundary fence, she started hunting amongst the rhodo dendrons and as I waited she came back to me so I took that opportunity to practice stop whistle as shown to me yesterday, did five reps of that and released back to the bushes.

I could not believe it, as if on cue she flushed out a woodcock! And returned to me after about 20 yards, so quick sit, mark and retrieve! Bingo, it all went like clockwork, the perfect follow up to yesterdays session .

I don't really care if she never goes shooting, if we can enjoy being out in the countryside together then I'm more than happy.

 

[Selina27]

I`m glad that the group is going to concentrate on areas you want to work on

There was a list and we took a vote -- stop whistle won by a big margin

Really good stuff! Especially as when she flushes, she runs for a few paces but orientates back to you... Great natural control.

It definitely depends on the game she flushes, woodcock are great actually because they don't seem to generate the high level of excitement as say, a pheasant. Or more than one pheasant. She's just sort of quietly focused until she finds it.

I thought Cassie would find her inner retrieving gene

Yep . It was there in the beginning and then got put to bed in the hormonal upheaval between 12 and 18 months. Then I think I began to put too much pressure on her and turned her off. But for all that its actually been great nurturing her retrieve, sussing out how she works. Thank you for your input.

Cassie is having the time of her life

Yeah, I'd say she is now.

@Atemas , @Cath, @Joy, thanks for your replies, it's wonderful to be able to share our progress with MLF