Crocopups and sharkadors!

[Peartree]

WARNING This might upset you if you have struggled with this problem but I have a confession to make.

I have NEVER had problems with puppy biting.

In fact, I was not aware that lab puppies were known for being horrors for this, and had never heard the terms until I joined TLF, despite having labs for 25 years plus.

I know that not all puppies are like this and I’ve only had a couple of spaniels and 6 lab puppies so not a huge sample but now after having Pickle I think there are a couple of reasons for this.

I was worried when I mentioned this to Pickles breeders, they laughed, and I was told that their pups were renowned for being snappy.

I suffer from a blood condition which makes me bruise and bleed very easily and therefore I have zero tolerance for puppy biting and disengage the moment it starts.

The other thing that I was told to do the moment that the puppy puts their teeth on your skin is to squeak and moan. This is a tip from a dog trainer from years ago with my first lab ( I had nothing to compare her with but now think that she was truly brilliant and way ahead of her time) who told us that we should absolutely make this an Oscar winning performance and act as if they had bitten our arm off. So hamming it up totally with moaning, staggering and holding the limb and going off into the corner to sulk!!!

Well it’s worked for Pickle and 5 weeks in I’m bruise and bite free. She doesn’t seem to have been traumatised by the one time I did it, and watching the way the three dogs interact I’m sure that my theatrics were the way to go.

Anyone else want to have a try with their next pup?

 

[Boogie]

Wow - that’s quite a record!

I’ve never had a pup that wasn’t a crocapup and I’m expecting the next to be the same!

Squeaking or moaning just meant ‘ohhh you are playing too’ so I soon gave that up!

Here is my thread on the subject - I do think it’s very normal and mostly needs to be managed because they all grow out of it.

 

[Emily]

WARNING This might upset you if you have struggled with this problem but I have a confession to make.

I have NEVER had problems with puppy biting.

That's it, where's a mod that can revoke membership?

The other thing that I was told to do the moment that the puppy puts their teeth on your skin is to squeak and moan

I tried this with Ella but she just took it to mean "yay, that's exciting, please start playing and bite me even more!"

Glad it's working for you though

 

[Peartree]

Wow - that’s quite a record!

I’ve never had a pup that wasn’t a crocapup and I’m expecting the next to be the same!

Squeaking or moaning just meant ‘ohhh you are playing too’ so I soon gave that up!

Here is my thread on the subject - I do think it’s very normal and mostly needs to be managed because they all grow out of it.

No I’m not talking about squeaking and moaning - I’m talking about really telling the puppy from your reactions that they have hurt or upset you. I agree that if you just squeak then the pup thinks you are playing. I see this with her interactions with the older dogs where they growl and she carries on and ignores it as she know they don’t really mean it. This is Oscar winning reaction telling the pup that it jolly hurts.

 

[Peartree]

That's it, where's a mod that can revoke membership?




I tried this with Ella but she just took it to mean "yay, that's exciting, please start playing and bite me even more!"

Glad it's working for you though

Please don’t revoke my membership I did give a warning at the beginning - you read on at your peril!

 

[kateincornwall]

I have had pups who bite , and pups who dont . Reuben was a shocker and all the noise in the world wouldnt deter the little devil . Crying out, distraction, getting up and walking away , I did the lot to no avail and then suddenly at around four months old, he stopped , just like that x

 

[Boogie]

No I’m not talking about squeaking and moaning - I’m talking about really telling the puppy from your reactions that they have hurt or upset you. I agree that if you just squeak then the pup thinks you are playing. I see this with her interactions with the older dogs where they growl and she carries on and ignores it as she know they don’t really mean it. This is Oscar winning reaction telling the pup that it jolly hurts.

I think the problem with that may be that the pup is less likely to interact as much, as mouthy bitey way is so natural to them. The reaction could confuse them. The bond with our GD pups is crucial and comes before all else.

I have become very adept at managing the crocs - almost no broken skin at all these days. By four/five months they are well out of the phase anyway.

Our pups are bred to be very bold indeed, so this adds into their crocability. I’ve seen less bold Lab pups being far less bitey - but never a GD pup. I think they all are!

 

[Peartree]

I agree that puppies explore the world with their mouths and I’m hopefully not shutting them down just giving them feedback. The only person who I saw was completely chewed by her dog was someone at a puppy class with a vizla pup, her arms looked like she had been self harming with a carving knife!

I have a huge incentive to stop being bitten as the results for me are so horrible. It hasn’t so far stopped Pickle from being bold but thoughtful. I don’t want a dog that acts before it thinks.

I understand that you are in a different position and that you are training for someone else and a particular role. I admire you

 

[Beanwood]

Oh my! Well I sincerely hope Pickle doesn't follow in Otter's pawsteps! Otter was a dreadful crocpup, and really something I had not properly experienced. Luckily this was just about manageable by shoving one of her toys in her mouth. Oh God though fast forward to now and we have a different animal, imagine a crocodile armed with a ballistic missile...and you have Otter right now...

 

[Selina27]

This is all very interesting. The whole crocopup thing was a total shock to me when I had Cassie, I'd never known it before. If it's associated with being bold then that explains a great deal. I definitely could have handled it better, but I found some tips either on line or in the Labrador Handbook when you C and T for the puppy allowing your hand to go towards them, in various increments and that helped a lot, and also giving her an alternative to chew. Making a noise did not cut with her -- she just thought RESULT!!! Mind you, I daresay it wasn't Oscor winning!
I can understand how you need to protect yourself @Peartree, how old is Pickle now?

 

[Candy]

Gentle little Joy was the most bitey pup I've ever had! Hard to believe now, although she still sometimes mouths me when we have cuddles, but now she does it ever so softly.

 

[Boogie]

I also think that with every single pup we forget just how bitey they were - I know I do!

Gentle little Joy was the most bitey pup I've ever had! Hard to believe now, although she still sometimes mouths me when we have cuddles, but now she does it ever so softly.

Tatze is so cute when she mouths, she ‘grooms’ me as if I’m a pup.

 

[FayRose]

I agree this is very interesting, particularly in judging a more bitey pup as a bolder pup.

Our first lab BJ was a shocker, and he was also a hooligan in many other ways, ripping plants out of the border and biting the heads off flowers. He once ran the length of a daffodil lined path - quite a long path - and snatched the head off every flower ! He was I suppose a bold pup with a wicked sense of humour

Molly is totally different. She was never bitey, hasn't touched a plant and we have even been able to leave gardening gloves on the ground and the gate to the veg garden open without fear of her damaging either. My husband is forever saying how 'easy' she is compared to the previous dogs. Molly has the tendency to become anxious if she thinks anyone is cross or upset though and heaven forbid she hears a raised voice, so I guess she is/was far from bold.

I wonder how soon it becomes apparent whether a pup is bold enough for the job to come @Boogie

 

[kateincornwall]

Very interesting @FayRose , Sam was also a very sensitive soul, he would leave the room if voices were raised , never could be described as bold, quite the opposite although not nervous , just cautious . He never did the puppy biting either , or biting anything else for that matter, apart from the cooker switches he ate ! Reuben is by contrast as very confident bold boy most of the time , he was quite a shock to the system .

 

[Boogie]

@FayRose said -

I wonder how soon it becomes apparent whether a pup is bold enough for the job to come @Boogie

The pups will arrive at the breeding centre the week before they come up, at six weeks old. They come up to puppy walkers at seven weeks old. They spend the week with their litter and they go though many assessments. They are given a colour as to each characteristic and the ‘purple pups’ don’t make it into the programme. There are not many as they are bred for ‘bomb proofness’. We never get to know what colour they were allocated.

Then, once they are with us they are assessed every couple of months. If there is any doubt a ‘marker’ is put against their name for possible withdrawal and they are assessed more carefully. They can be withdrawn at any point during their first year or their training. My Twiglet was in her final week of training when she was withdrawn (bird distraction probably caused by not wanting to work). She’s the only one I’ve had withdrawn so far - touch wood.
.

 

[Selina27]

he would leave the room if voices were raised

Cassie too hates raised voices, very luckily for her it's happened very rarely in her life. Just recently my daughter and I have had a couple of spats though, and it's very clear that it upsets Cassie.
It's not that she never thinks or shows caution, I'm pretty sure she knows exactly what she's doing at all times, but more that she just is ready to take on the world.

 

[Loraseal]

We tried this, using the body language and squeaking very loud but it didn't work. My 10 year old son really took to the squeaking! At 12 weeks he stopped biting. We lost many T-shirts/socks due to those sharp puppy teeth!
Hunter still "mouths" me so very gently when he greets me in the morning or I come home from work.
He is actually quite bold with other dogs and handles new experiences quite well.
All this puppy talk is getting me very puppy broody!
Pickle photo please @Peartree !

 

[Selina27]

Pickle photo please @Peartree !

I second that!

 

[FayRose]

Ah, thanks for that clear explanation @Boogie . When I hear how much time, effort and obviously cost goes into raising and selecting the pups, I'm always stunned by the dedication of you all involved.

You should all be seriously honoured for what you do.

 

[Shaz82]

her arms looked like she had been self harming with a carving knife!

That was me actually, and my legs and stomach - still have the scar, but you would never believe it now as Maisy is so calm and laid back.
I did everything to cope with it and that included curling up in a ball and crying in (fake) pain. Didn't work.

I think that all pups are different but I would like to think that I could manage better next time round, at least I would be prepared (could buy some body armour maybe )