Grain Free food and DCM

[Jennifer]

@SwampDonkey I think that’s the most sensible approach.

When you think about the number of dogs that have been eating a diet containing pea protein for years you’d think they’d have a definite link by now if it was a major problem.

 

[SwampDonkey]

A very nice lab man told me that when had his first labs there were very few foods. No special diets no pup foods. His dogs were fine

 

[Cath]

When my Grandfather had dogs there was no dog food at all. They just gave them what was left from their meals at the end of the day.
They all were well and lived to a good old age.

 

[Jennifer]

@SwampDonkey @Cath same here. I live on what was originally my grandparents farm. Back in their day the dog lived outside, got fed mainly scraps and bones and never needed the vets. Now is it dogs that have gone softer or owners ?

 

[Selina27]

ot fed mainly scraps

Yes, I know, it was commonplace wasn't it?
Our family spaniel was fed scraps with Winalot. I think he had a tin of Chappie on a Sunday !
I don't believe he saw a vet until the day he died aged 14 and a half.

But, in those days My mother cooked for 7 everyday, and there were scraps to be had. And I suppose it was a balanced diet when you think of it.
I certainly wouldn't produce enough scraps to feed Cass these days!
The thing with commercially produced dog food is knowing what goes into it, I think it's good thing to be aware of the unscrupulous ones that are largely rubbish and potentially harmful for our dogs, whilst keeping a sense perspective and finding what suits them as individuals.

 

[Jennifer]

@Selina The OH gets what he’s given but I’d have to learn how to cook a lot better if I was going to feed left overs to my dog.

 

[Selina27]

My mother cooked for 7 everyday, and there were scraps to be had.

I've just realised that makes it sound like Mum was a bad cook, which she definitely wasn't!

That dog loved her and was utterly devoted to her. She couldn't go to the bathroom without he'd lie outside the door waiting for her to come back out!

 

[M.F.]

You might find the articles on this website insightful: The Science Dog. She writes about canine nutrition and reviews the various studies.

My own take is that ultra processed food is bad for humans, and my logic therefore tells me it’s bad for dogs. Most kibble is ultra processed (exposed to such high temperatures as to cause chemical changes that you wouldn’t achieve if cooking in your own kitchen). It’s unhealthy to start with regardless of whether it’s grain free or something else.

 

[Stacia]

My Mother bought 'lights' from the butcher, lungs usually and some intestines and a sheep head which she cooked up for the dog. The cat had fish heads cooked!

 

[Selina27]

My Mother bought 'lights' from the butcher

Yes, I remember folk doing that too.

I've just bought some "broncho bits" , high value reward for Cass, got me thinking of big pans of "lights" on Agas.

 

[Jennifer]

@Jelinga Sheeps head I can imagine the smell of boiling sheep’s head although I bet the dog loved it

Thank you @M.F. very interesting.

 

[Stacia]

@Jelinga Sheeps head I can imagine the smell of boiling sheep’s head although I bet the dog loved it

.

It was yucky to get the meat off for the dogs!

 

[Jennifer]

Just thought I’d post this incase anyone who uses Skinners dog food is interested. Skinners is the other food I’m considering changing Hunter on to as Scott and Scout did well on their field and trial adult. They use pea protein and peas in their diets so I emailed their nutritionist to ask their opinion on the link between DCM and pulses. This info was included in their reply.

• As of July 2018, the FDA (U.S. Food and Drug Administration) began investigating reports of dilated cardiomyopathy (DCM) and grain free diets.
• DCM is a condition where the heart muscle degenerates- Dilated Cardiomyopathy in Dogs | VCA Animal Hospital | VCA Animal Hospitals
• DCM is a genetic condition which develops more frequently in some breeds than others e.g. boxers, German shepherds, great danes, Irish wolfhounds, cocker spaniels..
• However DCM can be caused by other factors, although genetics is thought to play the most important role.

• With 77 million dogs in the USA, only a relatively small percentage of cases were reported.
• The investigation mainly turned its head towards diets which had a high amount of legumes/pulses like peas and lentils, as the main ingredient. Please note Skinner’s do not use peas as a main ingredient and therefore it is not included at a high level.
• The investigation looked at cases of illness reported to the FDA. They looked at the breed of dog/cat, diet, age, sex etc..
• Some researchers wondered if a taurine deficiency was an influential factor in the progression of DCM (an amino acid important for heart health). Please note that all Skinner’s puppy, sensitive, senior and working 30 diets are supplemented with additional taurine, while additional taurine will be supplied from the meat itself. Furthermore all of our diets meet the FEDIAF nutritional guidelines and are therefore complete and balanced recipes.

• In June 2020, a new publication in the Journal of Animal Science concluded that, based on current evidence, there was no definitive association between DCM and the implicated diet characteristics such as grain-free or use of novel proteins.
• The FDA also stated that the ingredients focused upon in the investigation have been used in pet foods for many years with no evidence of harm to dogs.
• The evidence was also collected in North America, with little to no evidence from the UK.

The conclusions:

• The FDA closed the investigation at the end of 2022.