Leaving a pup for 10 hours.

MellowYellow

MellowYellow

You are doing well Mags. Maybe suggest they try to imagine the pup as having the same mental age and similar needs to a toddler... I find people (when they are willing to listen at all) are more able to focus when you put it into terms they can understand better, i.e. you wouldn't leave a toddler alone for 10 hours, because he wouldn't learn the social skills he needs to make him a performing member of society. Quite apart from ethical reasons, of course.
 
M

M.F.

The other day someone was so surprised when I said I always recommend that, if someone is wondering about getting a dog, I say don’t get a dog. My response was that most people don’t consider dogs to be sentient beings. (Even more people don’t consider animals in general to be sentient beings—why I’m vegan.) That person in the fb group is not alone in thinking it’s quite okay to leave a dog alone for hours, or to keep the dog outside while everyone is inside. It is so sad.

Thankfully, sending your dogs out with a dog walker is massive in my area. The number of dogs out and about looks like it is increasing all the time. It’s become quite a trend. A really lovely trend!! And a great employment booster.
 
Jen

Jen

I always find the posts about what can I help to stop my dogs pulling in those groups annoying.

The answer is never training - and they never want that answer. They want an instant miracle cure.
 
Plum's mum

Plum's mum

Location
East Sussex
Well done @Boogie for your persistence, it is making me feel sick and sad reading the posts.

The thing is, the poster asks for help and advice but rejects everything you offer out of hand. What they want to hear is “yeah, you’re doing ok, don’t worry about it.” Often when people are offered alternative views, when they feel they’re in the wrong, it just makes them sadly more entrenched in their own positions.

I am rarely in favour of being rude or judgemental, and you’re not remotely being either @Boogie, but god I just want to scream “F***K OFF ARSEWIPE” plus a lot more besides.
 
snowbunny

snowbunny

Location
Andorra and Spain
Plum's mum said:
Often when people are offered alternative views, when they feel they’re in the wrong, it just makes them sadly more entrenched in their own positions.
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This is why I don't argue like this anymore - unless I just can't help myself, and it does slip out from habit sometimes :D
As soon as you argue against something someone is doing, you put them on the defensive and they become more entrenched - and even start to believe more strongly - in their original viewpoint. That doesn't help anyone, including your own stress levels. (I've posted this before but it's always worth a read: You're not going to believe what I'm about to tell you - The Oatmeal)

If I feel like I have to say something, then phrasing it as "When I was in this situation, I did this.... I felt like this..." means that you can get your own point across, without giving them anything to argue with. Even if you - er - stretch the facts sometimes.
"I know, it's so difficult when you have to work, but when I was in the exact same position with my latest pup, I just felt that it wasn't right for a puppy to be alone for that long without any interaction, so what I did was...". It won't always work, of course, and we just can't expect people to change their views in an instant, but it might cause a little flicker of recognition that starts to grow. And especially when you're in that sort of environment where insinuating that what they're doing means that you're also saying that many of the other people are doing it wrong - they're bound to also jump on the defensive and it turns into a shit-show of division.

I totally understand the reason all of us want to grab these people by the collars and shout at them, and I admire the way you kept your cool, Mags, but the reaction from those others just screams defensiveness. Once those barriers are up, you're not changing anyone's mind, however polite you are about it.

I'd walk away from the stress of that group and find yourself places where you're happier. Facebook is full of wonderful groups of wonderful, likeminded people - you just have to filter through the reams of groups filled with troglodytes to get there :)
 
Jacqui-S

Jacqui-S

Moderator
Location
Fife, Scotland
Errrm.....
Jen said:
I know quite a few people who leave their dogs all day when they’re at work, and I have to admit - their dogs are fine.

They didn’t do it when they were puppies though, they would go home at lunch or get someone to pop in. Their dogs have always been left what I would deem to be too long though, but like I say - their dogs don’t seem to have any problems.
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This would be me really.
It worked for us. And of course it was built up slowly and initially "a whole day" was 6.5 hours (oh for those days!).
It is however the main reason I, personally, would not want to commit to another dog probably until I retire.
I would definitely take everything I have learned from TLF and you guys to do it better next time.
 
snowbunny

snowbunny

Location
Andorra and Spain
Jacqui-S said:
Errrm.....

This would be me really.
It worked for us. And of course it was built up slowly and initially "a whole day" was 6.5 hours (oh for those days!).
It is however the main reason I, personally, would not want to commit to another dog probably until I retire.
I would definitely take everything I have learned from TLF and you guys to do it better next time.
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And this is the other thing. Most of the time these dogs are just fine. No, it's not what we would consider ideal, but most of the time, they don't end up with big anxiety and behavioural issues. Their families love them just as much as we love our dogs; they're just missing some pieces, as are we all.
 
Stacia

Stacia

Location
Malvern Worcestershire
I am sorry you left @Boogie as I think you were doing a good job, even though it was landing on some deaf ears, but some people reading, may have reconsidered what they were doing.

A friend went to well known rescue and there was a dog there, labelled as having 'separation anxiety' which has seriously affected this dog's chances of being re-homed. He was labelled this way as a couple took this dog home, left it on the very first day for 10 hours and then took it back as it became very distressed! It beggars belief!
 
Boogie

Boogie

Moderator
Location
Manchester UK
Jelinga said:
I am sorry you left @Boogie as I think you were doing a good job, even though it was landing on some deaf ears, but some people reading, may have reconsidered what they were doing.

A friend went to well known rescue and there was a dog there, labelled as having 'separation anxiety' which has seriously affected this dog's chances of being re-homed. He was labelled this way as a couple took this dog home, left it on the very first day for 10 hours and then took it back as it became very distressed! It beggars belief!
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It really does. :cry:

I left the group when that thread stopped being commented on. I found the whole group upsetting - people are more than happy to leave dogs alone in gardens for hours on end, nobody seems to think it’s unusual. It’s no way to start my day - seeing photos of lovely dogs and people complaining they are wrecking their house/garden.
.
 
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