Let's work on resource guarding

[Shamas mom]

Shamas is great in the house...except for some resource guarding- which is focused on his food bowl, and chews. Chews are easy--I can give them to him at night, when he's shut in his room for the night. The food bowl is a little more concerning. When the puppy gets here, I don't want him choking down his food in an effort to prevent her getting it...or threatening her to stay away.

Now the first thing that comes to mind is "pick up the food bowl" but here's the challenge.....I feed him when I get up, while I get ready to go to work. and I'm out the door 10 minutes later.

SO I'm considering swapping breakfast to a wet food variant. He'll be more likely to finish that.

Shamas grazes, because he's got an ulcer, and his tummy gets uncomfortable if he eats too much. He only takes a few bites first thing in the morning, and usually still has food when I get home from work at 4. I need him to be finishing his breakfast, and getting a mid-afternoon supper.

Seems to me that not having food around is the simplest solution to resource guarding.

However, I'm open to any other suggestions too

 

[Boogie]

Maybe just feed him a small breakfast with his main meal at 4 when you get home?

When I have more than one dog I feed them separately behind gates and make sure both bowls are picked up before they are together again. Especially with baby pups. We teach them not to resource guard by never going near them when the are eating anything and making sure they don’t get together even with Kongs.

That is until we are certain the pups are fine and won’t pinch Tatze’s Kong - usually at about seven months old, but even then we supervise closely.

Yesterday I gave Tatze and Zaba some salmon ‘juice’ and this was the result. But they still have their meals completely separately as I said above.

(Zaba nearly ate the ‘dish’! )

 

[Shamas mom]

So it's been a little over a week, and Shamas' resource guarding is relatively minor:

He grumbles if the puppy goes near his bowl, but we have it in the hall and as long as she passes by it, he's fine. She doesn't go there unless it's to get to the door.

Every ball in the house is his; he doesn't fuss about her playing with them...but as soon as she finishes, he claims them. Including the ones we bought her. He will sneak into her room to steal them and add them to his hoard

He gets a little sad to see her playing with a stuffy he can't take. If she barks and growls at it, he grumbles at her, and gets huffy. You can tell he wants to take it, but knows better.

He does not protest in the least if she takes rubber toys, and he also takes hers. Low value toys are being interchangeable to get him used to the idea of sharing.

Treats...he gets it first, then her. To maintain "pack rank" or whatever we want to call it. He was here first so he gets it first. They can work it out between them later. Food is fed in their own places, in completely different spaces. Hers is behind a half-door, so he can't steal it. He got a whole meal once and puked on my bed, then in the hall. Yuck. Puppy food doesn't agree with him

 

[Boogie]

That’s sounding really good @Shamas mom

Maybe keep the stuffies and balls away from both of them and play with them separately with those toys for a few months?

 

[Shamas mom]

Yes, they each have their own stuffies. I just let Shamas have the balls lol. Except one that he didn't really like. It's more of a ball-shaped framework made of rubber. It's as big as Angel, and she likes to chew it, and trips over it when she tries to carry it

 

[Beanwood]

Is Shamas food bowl down all the time? It might be an idea to remove it. Feed them both in different rooms and lift bowls immediately they have finished.

If he is growling when pup walks past it then this is not really a good place to start from from the perspective of not only Shamas, but the impact on the pup as well.

 

[Shamas mom]

Is Shamas food bowl down all the time? It might be an idea to remove it. Feed them both in different rooms and lift bowls immediately they have finished.

If he is growling when pup walks past it then this is not really a good place to start from from the perspective of not only Shamas, but the impact on the pup as well.

I now pick shamas bowl up anytime the puppy comes out as she'll get on her back legs to find the food.

We did good work today. Rather than put the bowl down when Shamas indicated hunger , I hand fed him. Angel was out, so of course she showed up too. The two sat 2feet apart to be hand fed from the food in Shamas bowl and he was quite calm.

It's OK to share because I said so, and she can't reach the bowl.

The food is not the resource he's protective of....the bowl is. The bowl, and balls(which he likes to keep in the food bowl)

The food dish is his treasure chest(photo pre-puppy)
I can tell which toys are not to be shared, because those toys end up in the food dish. Those toys get put away when my dad's dogs come over, and when Angel comes out of her room

 

[Jacqui-S]

That's interesting @Shamas mom
You are doing great things!

 

[Shamas mom]

Can someone explain to me......


If shamas walks up and drops a toy ON Angel....where does he get off telling her she can't play with it??


I'm so confused!

 

[Jacqui-S]

Beats me.
Can you video it? Just a thought....

 

[Shamas mom]

If I remember

I could be reading into it. Could be an invitation to play that I misinterpret because it includes a growl.

I know that they have recently started barking at each other....which game I do not enjoy. Shamas seems to though.

 

[Jacqui-S]

Lilly is often a growly/barky player particularly when running and zoomies are happening with another dog.

 

[Ashley]

Can someone explain to me......


If shamas walks up and drops a toy ON Angel....where does he get off telling her she can't play with it??


I'm so confused!

What does he do that is telling off? Quinn’s play style is to bring toys and wave in other dogs faces of press up against their neck (lol) - lots of noise but it’s all play.

 

[Shamas mom]

When he drops a toy on her.......He drops the toy on her, then growls at her. low, but no teeth bared. I haven't watched his tail...my eyes were focused on his face. it's slightly different than the standard guarding toy response.


This morning, she wanted his toy. She sat on it, and hunched over it. I wasn't sure why he was getting growly, until I got to them, and when I saw her over his toy I realized. He barked in her face and nipped her so I took it away from both of them.
I don't leave toys laying around as a rule...this was left out from last night and she'd been let out without warning. The toy thing happened while I was putting away the food, which I'd just pulled her out of. she he was already a bit miffed with her.

He doesn't hurt her--he gets her head wet, then steps out of the way for me to intervene. She gets a good 3-4 warnings before he acts. Usually I have a chance to remove the object before he feels the need to act.

Warnings look like...Shamas's face next to Angel's face, stiff pose, low growls. 1...2....3...4....RAWH!

Play with warnings usually involves her jumping in and doing something he's not keen on, like pulling his tail, or the fur on his haunches...and his issuing low growls while moving off. Again, 4 warnings and a RAAR in her face.

Even over the food bowl, if she's been let out while I put it down for his dinner and she darts for it...he grumbles, stands over it, crowds her, but lets me pull her out of it. then he wags his tail at me as the complaint is resolved and I pick up the bowl.


the two of them are very good where treats are concerned. If I have the food, they both sit, and take turns beautifully.

 

[edzbird]

Meg is a very noisy player. She drops stuff on Coco or shoves it at him and barks and growls. Then they might play with that toy, or escalate into ruff & tumble with lots of biting of legs, cheeks, necks. Coco is almost silent, but very playful.

 

[Shamas mom]

Update:

Shamas is a bit of a (insert adjective), often taking things that Angel has. But it's not terrible. He barks and growls to warn her off his favorite things, and she is properly submissive in return. If I feel he's being "mean", he loses it altogether. Of course, as soon as he turns his back, she darts in and takes it lol. She's a sneaky one, and has a whole collection of things she stole from him after he said she couldn't play with them lol. She buries things in the litter box so he doesn't want them back!

At the food bowl, they share food and water under close supervision. Having had an issue with her refusing to eat her own food and instead of darting for his bowl, and him refusing his and darting for hers.... we have struck a compromise: she gets his brand of food at breakfast, in the hall with him... and hers the rest of the day. Less theiving that way. Now she's eating her own food again. Which means HE's not breaking in and eating it.

The morning routine now looks like this: They get up and go outside. Then they share some chew time on the bed, each with their own stick from the vets. When after 1/2 hour, I pour food in the double bowl in the front hall. 2cup for food in each side. They share breakfast with me standing over them. Then I wash the bowls and repeat with water, which I leave until supper time. At supper, I leave the water in one bowl and fill the other to take Shamas through to morning. He likes to eat at about 3 am.

I'm doing this because if they don't eat together, neither eats the meal given them--they sneak off and eat each others food, and shamas pukes all over the place. This way, rather than food being claimed or stolen...I'm standing there to guide them to the appropriate bowls. If Shamas dips his head into the bowl she's been given..she steps aside, and I reach down and quietly remove him. Then she steps back up to the food for some more.

Since we started doing this with the bones and the bowls, Shamas has become much better with everything. Because I'm the one saying who eats where, and no one's stealing from his bowl(nor is he being left hungry because he doesn't eat in the short time his bowl is down before we pick it up to stop her eating it) He actually eats with her beside him. He shows interest in the food. Before, he showed so little interest in food that I would fill his bowl in the morning, and wonder if he'd eaten at all at supper time. We were changing his food every 3 months to try and interest him in eating.

 

[Shamas mom]

Is Shamas food bowl down all the time? It might be an idea to remove it. Feed them both in different rooms and lift bowls immediately they have finished.

If he is growling when pup walks past it then this is not really a good place to start from from the perspective of not only Shamas, but the impact on the pup as well.

we did initially remove the food bowl as you suggested. The whole frame went downstairs in storage.

We picked up his bowls in the morning, when the puppy was let out.

The result was shamas getting sick often from stealing her food. Because her owner didn't pick up her food.

After a while, Shamas stopped reacting badly to Angel near the bowl. He shared water first. This began by My putting down a second, then third bowl each time he tried to claim the resource. then moving him out of the way so she could access it. This was done in the kitchen. They learned to take turns.

Then, using his big bowl, and my own hand, I taught him that food from his own bowl may be shared too. I'd scoop food from his bowl, and hand feed him, then her. by turns. Then top up the bowl and put it high so she didn't jump into it

Once they were laying close together by choice with chews....that was when I re-introduced the raised bowls with only water.

and then I added food one morning, but stood right over them while they ate, to redirect Shamas if he dipped into her side. It's a gentle redirection, just pushing his muzzle back into his own side. While she steps back to wait for me to clear the way for her

 

[Jacqui-S]

Neither Lilly nor Oreo have any resource guarding issues but they have until recently been fed in separate rooms. Now they are both in the kitchen, but different corners, a couple of meters apart.
Both are good eaters. Both will go check the other bowl and lick it out once done, no issues with each other on this (of course neither leave anything).
I think its important for dogs to be fed separately to ensure they feel comfortable.... and in the case of labs, to prevent excessive gobbling at super fast speed.

 

[Shamas mom]

We still do feed separately most of the time

Problem is....they don't eat when separated. They both complain at their gates until "feeding time " is over and we let them together again. And both bowls are left full. Then they scavenge because they're hungry.

The only other way they eat is hand fed, during training sessions.

They just don't like being separated after the trauma of the 2week quarantine after shamas bit that dog...

 

[Ashley]

Primrose carried on for months wanting Quinn’s food, but I fed her in her crate and she stayed in there until Quinn was done eating despite her crying and carrying on and not eating her own full meal. Over time she’s been able to be eat out of the crate and pays no attention to Quinn, but they are in separate rooms for eating - they can lick each other’s bowls after. I don’t want either to be pushy or take food from the other’s “space” or bowls.