Mutual trust between dogs and humans

[Peartree]

Mr P and I went for a walk this morning on a new heathland common. . It’s 100s of acres of heather and forestry and the dogs were really excited, running around and sniffing.

We were discussing that it’s a year since Diesel last bolted and that I still don’t totally trust him. He used to bolt for no reason and quite often injure himself. We are talking about taking off at full speed in panic with no discernible trigger. I was talking to SWIBO about it this summer and she was telling me that I’m really lucky that he’s still with us, given that some dogs bolt first time and that is the end of them. I cannot stress enough how much he would lose it and run for an hour until totally exhausted. Over the years he has come back several times with huge gashes cause by barbed wire, impaled himself and sprained limbs causing expensive vet bills.

He is now rising 5 and it seems that this behaviour has disappeared. This has coincided with being diagnosed with IBD last January and after treatment and a special diet he has gone from 24kg to currently an amazing 32.4kg. He has just changed in personality and is a far more chilled dog.

I still can’t accept this and am still anxious on a walk. Mr P was telling me that I’m the problem not the dog! I’m not sure whether I will ever get over this. It’s only Diesel that I don’t trust, Bingley disappears into the under growth or goes on a huge fast loop around us and I know that he will return. For Bingley I’m his safe space and anything that’s scary and he’s back telling me about it. Neither of them are interestedly in other dogs or other people but I just can’t relax enough to accept that Diesel will be ok after having so many times or things going to shit so quickly.

Does anyone else have these feelings or managed to overcome them? Or is it just me after years of managing and coping?

 

[Charlie]

I understand these feelings. I found it incredibly stressful when Charlie our rescue dog used to abscond for anything up to 2 hours and return exhausted. I was terrified. He is 8 years old now and is by no means a 'velcro' dog but he has a distance that he uses and checks in with us, being a Pointer cross he doesn't stay close like a lot of breeds. We have trained, trained and trained him to recall, check in etc. and he is 100% better than he was. I am a little better at coping now but I still do have a little bit of "what if" at the back of my mind and I never relax on a walk with him. He is not chilled out mores the pity, one day! I think its the years of managing and coping, I couldn't agree more. It's difficult. xx

 

[Peartree]

I understand these feelings. I found it incredibly stressful when Charlie our rescue dog used to abscond for anything up to 2 hours and return exhausted. I was terrified. He is 8 years old now and is by no means a 'velcro' dog but he has a distance that he uses and checks in with us, being a Pointer cross he doesn't stay close like a lot of breeds. We have trained, trained and trained him to recall, check in etc. and he is 100% better than he was. I am a little better at coping now but I still do have a little bit of "what if" at the back of my mind and I never relax on a walk with him. He is not chilled out mores the pity, one day! I think its the years of managing and coping, I couldn't agree more. It's difficult. xx

Thank goodness that I’m not the only one! We are always frustrated when dogs won’t trust us and expect them to understand but Mr P was saying that I should trust the dog in the same way. But I just can’t!

 

[Charlie]

In Charlie's case nobody had bothered to train him so we did. He trusts us of that I'm in no doubt. I would say that I trust Charlie off lead the least in our family. I am a complete worry wart though. I am working hard on trusting Charlie off lead but it doesn't come easily to me. Maybe one day. x

 

[Jacqui-S]

Helen, you have done brilliantly with Charlie!
Put in loads of work and made such a difference to his life.
I remember your early posts and your despair.
@Peartree , Helen is a star. A+++ for perseverance

 

[Charlie]

Aww thanks so much @Jacqui-S I've never had an 'A' in my life x

 

[JES72]

When we went to see the vet behaviourist a RVC I asked about my anxiety effecting Homer. His response was to ask if I was scared of noises before Homer was, I was not. He said it was Homers anxiety travelling up the lead to me. It was then up to me to acknowledge this and actively readjust how I was responding to Homer. He reassured me that my reactions were quite normal

I will still flinch when I hear noises when Homers no where near but do my best to just carry on as normal as best I can. Trouble is Hubby still gets stressed when Homer starts pacing so I now have both of them to deal with.

 

[Lisa]

I can totally relate! I can’t trust Simba off lead completely. He is much, much better than he used to be but occasionally he will catch a scent and be off. What I am getting better at is trusting that he will come back. Last fall he took off on me, first time in a long time. I forced myself to not hare off in the bush after him, but to wait close to where he disappeared and occasionally call/whistle. He did come back, to the same spot, at top speed, about fifteen minutes later.

It is definitely not the same as my previous dogs (Border Collies). They were focussed on the frisbee/stick I would throw and would never run off, so it’s been different with Simba, for sure.

 

[Atemas]

Thank goodness that I’m not the only one!

No you are definitely not the only one. I understand that feeling (I felt it as I read your post) and no unfortunately it never really goes away. It lessens as time goes on and you get successful recalls. Sky ran off several times when she was younger - looking back she got frightened of sudden noises. She would head for home in these situations which took her across what used to be a quiet country road but now can be a rat run through the villages. I have quite a few stories of Sky’s adventures and fortunately she never got hurt but it could have been so different.

Training, training and training is the key and having a ‘bag’ of ‘tools’ to arm yourself with will help you deal with your anxieties.

 

[Emily_Babbelhund]

@Peartree , I'm with the others on this one - lingering anxiety over Diesel is completely relatable. It's really hard to let go of that, especially when in your case a year is not that long. Not to say that a year means Diesel will backslide, just that for you a year is not long considering the strong emotions you must have had when he'd take off.

In my case, Brogan has been gone for three years at the age of nearly 13. Our worst reactivity years were when he was young (under 3 years), though the last time he reacted to another dog on lead was at the ripe old age of 10. So we are talking a LONG time ago for me.

Despite him getting his SD certification and being a working SD for nearly 10 years of his life, I could never trust him on that one behavioural point. He could walk through a crowd seeded through with other dogs and be cool as a cucumber, but I knew that potential was there and it was my job to manage it.

No one who knew him past the age of 3 thought he was even capable of reactivity, but I knew.

Now that colors my relationship with Carbon. As @snowbunny would say, I trigger stack. Carbon's reactivity compared to Brogan at his worst is laughable. We are training to overcome it and we will overcome it. However, I don't trust him and I know this effects pretty much everything. I really have to work on controlling my panic and frustration when it happens.

Conversely, one thing I never ever had to worry about with Brogan was recall. He was rock solid and frankly he just didn't go very far away from me ever. This is a Rottie vs Lab thing. Rotties are just made to stay close by. Labs are not. Last summer when I started letting Carbon off lead and he would just run, my mind would explode. I'm a human 'fear biter', meaning when I get scared I get angry - and I'd get so angry at Carbon that I couldn't see straight. I'd have a week at a time where I simply wouldn't let him off lead as I couldn't deal with the risk.

Now not only does he not go far, if he does disappear from view I know that he'll be back shortly. His recall is FAR from perfect, but I don't really stress about it. We work on it, but I don't panic about it. I think the reason I don't 'trigger stack' (tm Snowbunny) is that I've never had years of issues around recall/absconding.

So...

Does anyone else have these feelings or managed to overcome them? Or is it just me after years of managing and coping?

Yes, definitely all this sounds familiar and yes I have to think we can overcome them or at least effectively learn to live with the echo of past experience.

 

[Stacia]

Having had German Shorthaired Pointers, I was used to walking two leads and no dogs! However, although I didn't see much of them on a walk, they would never bolt off and were always within a minute of me (except when one became very old and she would go off, come onto to point something, push it up and then remember she was with someone and would then bark "help, help, I am lost!). To have a dog totally disappear for an hour or so would have scared me to death, so I understand how you feel @Peartree, maybe he has grown out of it, though coming across a Muntjac or Hare would be more than tempting.

 

[M.F.]

walking two leads and no dogs!

Lovely image! This is me many times on my mountain trail walk. I totally trust Snowie on any walk where there are no cars. But after twice running across a busy road after a scent, I cannot walk him off lead in an area close to a busy road. I don’t believe I’ll ever trust him. But off lead on the mountain I know I’m his “safe space” and he will never let me out of his sight for very long. I wonder if it’s because I’m not looking for him; I keep walking and he needs to make sure to keep up with me. But still, I’m not prepared to test this theory near a road.

However, I’m not dealing with a bolting, frightened dog. I think that is quite a different situation to bolting after a scent.

 

[Selina27]

Lovely image! This is me many times on my mountain trail walk. I totally trust Snowie on any walk where there are no cars. But after twice running across a busy road after a scent, I cannot walk him off lead in an area close to a busy road. I don’t believe I’ll ever trust him. But off lead on the mountain I know I’m his “safe space” and he will never let me out of his sight for very long. I wonder if it’s because I’m not looking for him; I keep walking and he needs to make sure to keep up with me. But still, I’m not prepared to test this theory near a road.

However, I’m not dealing with a bolting, frightened dog. I think that is quite a different situation to bolting after a scent.

I so relate to this, I too would not really trust Cass off lead near a road. Although with all our training that I am doing, she goes less and less distance from me, but even so I have seen just what happens when she picks up a scent she is compelled to follow.

@Peartree, no wonder you worry about the bolting, it is the most horrible feeling to think what may happen to a dog that has gone awol. I am very lucky that I can work with and train Cassie (as per SWMBO's advice, ), in a low risk area. But last week she hunted her way out of the wood, towards a field of sheep. She was definitely hunting whatever scent she was on (pheasant I think) but still......towards sheep, my worst nightmare. a very anxious few moments, before she returned to my voice recall, still hunting......