Proposed Animal rights laws in Spain - WTAF?!

[snowbunny]

Google Translate should help with this but.... WTAF?!? Of course, it's a mixed bag, but extreme, much?!

El Gobierno anuncia el mayor ataque a la caza de la historia con su Ley de Bienestar Animal

Sergio García Torres ha presentado el borrador del texto, que prohíbe la cría de animales a todos los ciudadanos y obliga a esterilizar a los animales de compañía.

revistajaraysedal.es

Highlights:
This is being presented by the government of Spain, to be approved in 2022 and expected to go into force in 2023.
At least half of the animals in a house must be sterilised - and ALL cats and dogs which have access to the outside must be sterilised.
The penal code which currently applies only to domestic animals will be extended to all vertebrate animals, meaning an end to all hunting and fishing.
An increase in the maximum sentence for animal abuse from 18 month to 56 months.
Dog breeding will only be allowed by licensed breeders, not individuals.

Watch this space....

 

[HAH]

Wowsers, that’s amazingly hardcore. Do you know the background to this? Is it a surprise? It sounds like a hunting ban may have been on the cards for a while, but there’s a lot of extra measures there. Is it likely to make it into law, or is it more like a shot across the bows that will then open negotiations?

 

[snowbunny]

I don't know the answers to any of those questions. For my sins, I don't follow Spanish politics and couldn't even tell you who was in government right now! I do know it wasn't long ago that Spain was trying to force Catalonia to reinstate bullfighting - which had been banned here by the Catalan government some time ago - because they said that the autonomous region didn't have the authority to ban it. So, from that position, it seems that something rather fundamental has changed!

Hunting is such a fundamental part of the landscape throughout Spain, for better or worse, and I'm amazed that they're contemplating this. In fact, during Covid, they made every day a hunting day, rather than having restrictions, which vary by region, but, for example, ours are Thursdays, Sundays, and any public holidays.

Without knowing any better, I am thinking that this is an opening volley and what will come into law will be a watered down version. But we shall see. It may be well-intentioned, but the neutering thing in particular is so misguided!

 

[Emily_Babbelhund]

Spain has some of the worst animal abuse in the EU, along with Italy, Greece, Romania, etc. That's culture, not laws. I'm sure there are already laws against killing Galgos after hunting season, for example. They don't get enforced or followed. And there are money-making organisations built up around the existing state mandates, for example the GOVERNMENT in Andalusia pays localities EUR 25 per dead dog (or at least they did up to 3 years ago when I last lived there), which is why the perreras are referred to as killing stations vs 'shelters'. Is the government going to prosecute itself for that?

Sorry, that's me being pessimistic. Say something nice: "At least they are trying". But trying to take away rural communities ability to hunt is going to mean widespread opposition so nothing gets passed. If they'd try to improve things without attacking such a cultural cornerstone, they may have a better chance. This way, it's like Madrid is TRYING to fail so they can say, "See, we tried, but the country didn't want it!" So...political theatre.

I'd love to see hunting disappear, but man oh man is that an ingrained cultural thing.

 

[Boogie]

WTAF indeed.

 

[Oberon]

Good idea to neuter all cats though. I imagine they do as much damage in Spain as they do here, to wildlife. Still, no doubt there is still a massive feral cat population…..

Governments propose legislation all the time and it almost never survives in the original incarnation. This will be the same. Assuming the Spanish parliament is the usual kind, without one party having an absolute majority in all houses…?

I expect that, down the track, even the farming and slaughter of animals for meat will be totally banned in some countries. Maybe not in our lifetime though. Things are moving in that direction.

 

[snowbunny]

Good idea to neuter all cats though. I imagine they do as much damage in Spain as they do here, to wildlife. Still, no doubt there is still a massive feral cat population…..

I’m going to bet that the average human does a lot more damage to wildlife than the average cat
And does neutering a cat make it any less damaging to the local fauna? I’m guessing not. But, yes, I get your point and it was something along the lines of what I was thinking yesterday. It’s been a long time since I’ve had a cat. Since then, I’ve had my own dogs (as opposed to family dogs) and I wouldn’t let them roam free for a second, because of concern for their well-being. I don’t think I could have a cat now in the same way I did back then, and let it wander unsupervised because of those same risks.

Still, no doubt there is still a massive feral cat population…..

Not here in the countryside where we are in Spain. We see the very odd cat - maybe one every six months or so. Cats don’t do well in the campo. Too many critters to eat them
They are around in populated areas, for sure. But here - a mere 5km from the centre of town, not a one.

 

[Oberon]

My view on cats is very Australian-centric Cats are a huge killer of wildlife here. And feral cats are everywhere… You are absolutely right that containment is the big issue/problem though (when it comes to domestic cats) - if cats are contained inside it doesn’t matter at all if they’re entire.

 

[Oberon]

Ps. We don’t have enough feral cat predators here. We have dingoes, but they themselves are hunted and poisoned by humans (although they’ve been in Australia for thousands of years they have an ambiguous status..not really seen as native…but they should be, and they play a key role, like wolves).

 

[Stacia]

My view on cats is very Australian-centric Cats are a huge killer of wildlife here. And feral cats are everywhere… You are absolutely right that containment is the big issue/problem though (when it comes to domestic cats) - if cats are contained inside it doesn’t matter at all if they’re entire.

It matters for the cat! Much better to be neutered than frustrated. I think it is cruel having cats which are kept indoors; I have a friend in America and they have three cats in a small apartment who are never allowed out.

 

[Jacqui-S]

It matters for the cat! Much better to be neutered than frustrated. I think it is cruel having cats which are kept indoors; I have a friend in America and they have three cats in a small apartment who are never allowed out.

My practice nurse has over the years bred cats - British short hair, Ragdolls, British Blue? - and she would never sell to someone who didn't intend them to be indoor cats.
It's quite hard to get your head around. Just like someone who never let's a dog off a lead?
I guess as long as they are well cared for, are they actually missing out on much? The opportunity to do a bit of night time mousing , is it worth the risk of harm from other predators (I'm mainly thinking man and his trusty steed the high speed car, here.
I agree it doesn't sound "natural " but then neither is neutering a cat.
It's hard to get your head round really.

 

[Selina27]

I guess as long as they are well cared for,

That's the thing , it all comes down to that. Cats themselves differ tremendously in their desire or not to carry out their natural hunting behaviour, in my limited experience. I had a ginger cat once who I could never have kept indoors, but our last cat Maisie stayed inside more of her own choice.

For myself, I have made the decision that I won't have another cat because I really don't like them catching so much wildlife quite literally on my doorstep. I would rather that birds can nest happily on my house wall and the little voles forage about outside my kitchen window.

 

[Stacia]

My practice nurse has over the years bred cats - British short hair, Ragdolls, British Blue? - and she would never sell to someone who didn't intend them to be indoor cats.
It's quite hard to get your head around. Just like someone who never let's a dog off a lead?
I guess as long as they are well cared for, are they actually missing out on much? The opportunity to do a bit of night time mousing , is it worth the risk of harm from other predators (I'm mainly thinking man and his trusty steed the high speed car, here.
I agree it doesn't sound "natural " but then neither is neutering a cat.
It's hard to get your head round really.

One of our vet nurses had an indoor cat and when it was poorly and had to see the vet, it had a major panic attack when taken out of the house. Also I feel that the cat needs the sunlight for its bones and skin health. To keep a cat indoors, to me, is doing it for oneself and not for the life of the cat. They are part of the ecosystem and there to keep wildlife down, sad though that is.

 

[Oberon]

It matters for the cat! Much better to be neutered than frustrated.

No argument here! I meant it didn’t matter from a wildlife perspective whether totally indoor cats are neutered or not.

 

[Selina27]

They are part of the ecosystem and there to keep wildlife down, sad though that is.

I can't actually agree with you here Sonia . Quite amicably as I'm sure you know.

The otters on the lake that take newly hatched ducklings and goslings, are very much part of the ecosystem, but not so domestic cats.

 

[Stacia]

I can't actually agree with you here Sonia . Quite amicably as I'm sure you know.

The otters on the lake that take newly hatched ducklings and goslings, are very much part of the ecosystem, but not so domestic cats.

Well of course we can disagree amicably I still believe domestic cats are part of the ecosystem. Thankfully a lot of cats are now neutered so they are not such a great threat. Perhaps we are both right to a degree and can meet in the middle.

 

[Oberon]

In Australia, over 30 mammal species have become extinct since European settlement and it’s thought that cats have played a major role in most of these… Also uncounted numbers of reptiles and birds. They have been an incredibly damaging introduction to ecosystems here.

The other two offenders are foxes and of course humans themselves (through hunting. Edit: also land clearing).

 

[Stacia]

In Australia, over 30 mammal species have become extinct since European settlement and it’s thought that cats have played a major role in most of these… Also uncounted numbers of reptiles and birds. They have been an incredibly damaging introduction to ecosystems here.

The other two offenders are foxes and of course humans themselves (through hunting. Edit: also land clearing).

Thank you @Oberon, I didn't know that. I suppose the cat does not have a predator apart from the motor car, hence it gets out of control.

 

[Oberon]

Yes, that is exactly right @Jelinga.

 

[JES72]

Sounds a bit like the Trainer we once had who stated the "ALL Labrador males should be neutered!"
I can see the reaction to a problem if there are lots of stray dogs and cats that are causing an adverse effect on wild life and if other measures have not been effective. But it does sound like a bit of a sledge hammer. Any law is only as good as its enforcement though.