Recall in exciting situations

JES72

JES72

Location
SW London UK
A bit of a long post. Stanley is going well but recently in the warmer weather we’ve had two incidents with public in open spaces.
Stanley's recall has been generally quite good on his normal walks and we practice coming away from other dogs or coming back if he’s stopped to sniff and I’ve walked on.
A few days ago there was a man sunbathing in long grass in the middle of the common where most dogs are happily off lead. Stanley was sniffing around, then was startled by the man lying down, he did a few play bows and darted from side to side. I called him but he was focussed on the unusual manner of the man who jumped up and said Stanley was attacking him even though Stanley was a good few meters away not barking nor growling. I called Stanley but he ran around in circles avoiding being caught for a bit (a matter of seconds but felt like ages before I could get hold of his collar). Stanley was over excited by the man’s actions so wasn’t listening to me. Then today Stanley was as good as gold sitting with me and a friend while we stopped fur a coffee on a long walk. A man with two young children started playing with a football about 30 to 40 meters away. Stanley was interested and I kept his attention on my with lots of treats. As I shifted his lead in my hand he darted towards the ball and the lead slipped out my grasp. Stanley tried to get the ball and ran round for a moment not wanting to come to me, also for just a moment. The man was annoyed and said to keep him on lead.
After the first incident I thought that if Stanley was a bit more ball focussed I could get him away quickly by throwing a ball for him to chase which used to work with Homer, but after the second incident I think I need to desensitise Stanley to wanting to play with footballs.
So a two fold question. What could I use for a super exciting emergency recall or distraction and how do I desensitise his focus on footballs?
Just to add he’s still young and still learning all these situations but as he’s now a big dog his Puppies’s isn’t always appreciated.
 
Anne123

Anne123

Location
Vlaardingen, the Netherlands
I am struggling too with this with Odin. Two weeks ago he saw a duck crossing his path. My OH is a bit stubborn in letting Odin off leash, So he was let off leash. He went after the duck, went swimming away, recall worthless....He folllowed the duck for quite some time in the water, couldn't get his attention.....I yelled his name for I knew he wouldn't listen to the whistle. After he while he turned and was looking for me. Then I whistled and he came straight back. That evening he was suffering from a cold water tail.....

I started to read the training tools which are started by Snowbunny. A lot of information and tools also for these situations.
 
Jacqui-S

Jacqui-S

Moderator
Location
Fife, Scotland
No answers here.
Sully's recall to me when other dogs are available to play is not reliable at all. Luckily I walk in a very tolerant dog friendly woodland with him.
I think his behaviour is reinforced when on his "adventure days: with his dog walker where he plays with his dog buddies "quite hard".
His recall to his mum is quite a bit better. But she is The Chosen One.
My best recourse is to play hide behind a tree......
 
HAH

HAH

Moderator
Location
Devon, UK
TLDR: Look at That and Look at Me games might help.

This is so familiar! I feel for you, Jess and Anne (and Jac of course, although maybe not quite so much weight of expectation when it’s not ‘your’ dog!). I’ve been trying to find the old posts on ‘Look At That’ and ‘Look At Me’ because I wonder if that’s the way forward for you both? I know there was a substantial thread of discussion and Snowbunny (?) explained it far better then I could now - but I’ll give it a go…
I think both your challenges might be similar, in that high value distractions (people doing weird things, balls, ducks) are currently more rewarding than your recall. Or to put it another way, once the adrenaline’s up and pumping, the teenage dog’s ability to think when over threshold is hugely reduced. And this is completely normal and common and standard behaviour for an adolescent, but so difficult for you as the owner.

@JES72 in your example, it also sounds like you and Stanley had 2 unfortunate incidents within a few days of each other, so little Stanley’s stress bucket was probably still quite full, and possibly yours too. No blame on you for how you managed it because you did incredibly well, in the face of some very challenging human behaviour (both my dogs would really struggle encountering a man lying in the grass. It’s just odd.) - but clearly that will have unsettled Stanley with how it played out.
JES72 said:
What could I use for a super exciting emergency recall or distraction and how do I desensitise his focus on footballs?
Click to expand...
Anne123 said:
He went after the duck, went swimming away, recall worthless....
Click to expand...
We’re currently working with a trainer to get both our boys comfortable in the same space, and one of the key things is to help Stilton (3 this week) stay calm and behave gently with Kipper. Stilton often gets frustrated around other dogs and wants to get to them, which can lead to barking and over excited behaviour.

One of the ways we’re working on this is with shifting focus onto me, where my dog sees trigger (eg other dog) - I mark (‘Yes!’) - my dog looks at me - I scatter high value treats. After a few repetitions, my dog starts to equate the trigger with looking at me for high value treats rather than continuing to focus on and engage with the trigger, meaning that new behaviour loop becomes far more rewarding. After you scatter the treats you want to follow that up with praise, engagement, moving away from the trigger, play etc. - but you get the basic principle. If your marker word doesn’t get a response, throw treats anyway and next time try to lower the difficulty of the distraction (by creating more distance). If you can set up the scenario for training so you can make it super easy to begin with, all the better - so @JES72 , work with Stanley at a good distance from other dogs eg at the top of a park on a long line, or behind a fence where you can see other dogs at a distance; and @Anne123 , similar but with ducks (might be trickier to set up, but hopefully you can work near ducks where you can see them but not too near?). @JES72 I’m conscious this doesn’t answer your questions directly but I hope this might help with at least part of the solution - keep us posted!
 
Cath

Cath

MLF Sales Coordinator
See Snowbunny video below

The adventures we never hear about...

Most of the time I (sort of) know what Pongo's doing. But he sometimes has adventures that I'll never know about. See what you think of this one, and what story would you make up about it.... Pongo has been spending a couple of days with his "other" pack - his dog-sitter and her little collie...
mylabradorfriends.com mylabradorfriends.com
 
JES72

JES72

Location
SW London UK
Anne123 said:
I am struggling too with this with Odin. Two weeks ago he saw a duck crossing his path. My OH is a bit stubborn in letting Odin off leash, So he was let off leash. He went after the duck, went swimming away, recall worthless....He folllowed the duck for quite some time in the water, couldn't get his attention.....I yelled his name for I knew he wouldn't listen to the whistle. After he while he turned and was looking for me. Then I whistled and he came straight back. That evening he was suffering from a cold water tail.....

I started to read the training tools which are started by Snowbunny. A lot of information and tools also for these situations.
Click to expand...
Thanks, I need to look up Snowbunnys thread
 
JES72

JES72

Location
SW London UK
Thank you, it’s hard when your adolescent dog looks like as adult to other people but still has puppy brain. I have found a trainer local to us so she knows the types of distractions there are and how most dogs are off lead on the common and towpath. I’ll keep you posted on our progress. I’ve just seen an add for a chase toys, basically a dummy on a long lead that you can throw and pull along.
 
Anne123

Anne123

Location
Vlaardingen, the Netherlands
JES72 said:
Thank you, it’s hard when your adolescent dog looks like as adult to other people but still has puppy brain. I have found a trainer local to us so she knows the types of distractions there are and how most dogs are off lead on the common and towpath. I’ll keep you posted on our progress. I’ve just seen an add for a chase toys, basically a dummy on a long lead that you can throw and pull along.
Click to expand...
I bought this one for Odin! And he is crazy about it, So much fun!

 
Joy

Joy

Location
East Sussex
You have my sympathies for the situation with the man lying in the grass - Stanley was clearly simply startled and couldn't listen for a moment (and by the sound of it it was just a moment or two). I remember when Molly was young we came across people right in the middle of the forest, off the beaten-track, in various stages of undress and Molly grabbed an article of clothing and ran off with it. Once I'd persuaded them to stop chasing and shouting (which she thought was a great game), she came when I called and handed it to me. To a certain extent you just have to think 'these things happen'.

However my thoughts on actually training are that at the 'teenage' stage just walking with your dog off-lead isn't the best option. When Molly was between 1 and 2 years of age or so I went out with a bag containing several different toys which each had a different purpose and if Molly was off lead she was actively engaged with me. We'd be doing retrieves of different types, tugging games, chase games (a sock on a length of bungee cord) and alternating between them. Then every so often she'd go on lead to give me a break and her a chance to just sniff. I think it takes time for your dog to develop the sense that all the good stuff happens near you.

I did a similar thing with the dogs I borrow. Rajah now has a 'go free' cue and can be trusted to run and sniff off-lead as he has great recall form distractions (Tess chooses to stick close even off-lead), but when I started he was 18 months old and ignoring his owner's calls so with me he was only off-lead if he was actively engaged with me.

I'm inclined to think that simply strolling along with your dog comes a bit later when they're maybe 3-ish?
 
Selina27

Selina27

Location
Herefordshire, UK
Joy said:
. I remember when Molly was young we came across people right in the middle of the forest, off the beaten-track, in various stages of undress and Molly grabbed an article of clothing and ran off with it. Once I'd persuaded them to stop chasing and shouting (which she thought was a great game), she came when I called and handed it to me
Click to expand...
My mind is running riot here.
 
Jacqui-S

Jacqui-S

Moderator
Location
Fife, Scotland
Sully like a good game of tug, wondering if this could be a good option to get his attention. Because he isn't food oriented. Balls can easily be lost, but that ball on the end of the buggy looks interesting too.
 
Joy

Joy

Location
East Sussex
Sock on a bungee cord - is my version of a flirt pole (easier to carry). So it's different from a tuggy game. You move the cord and the dog chases the sock - when they catch it the cord goes slack and that 'round' of the game is over. I used to give a treat at that point in the early stages to restart the game. Eventually you don't need a treat because the dog understands that releasing the sock is what causes the chase to restart.

Once they're good at this you can start either asking for a simple behaviour before the chase restarts or ask them to wait for a spoken cue before chasing even if the sock is moving.

Tess loves this game and is very good at it. I'm not seeing her till next Monday but I'll try to remember to video it.
 
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