Shadow's reactivity log

I like the Ian Dunbar article. Has Shadow ever bitten another dog, Fiona?
No, nothing "serious" - when he went for Nemo (the lurcher), he was biting at his coat, and went through that and nicked the skin. That's the worst it's ever been, very very superficial. IIRC, that has happened twice before where there has been a small scratch to the other dog, and once he got his ear bitten himself, but again so superficial to say it was accidental, knowing what damage could be done if they really wanted to. With the boxer, there was a fair bit of slobber of her scruff (even before Squidge started playing with her) but no punctures. I checked her very thoroughly, because the girl walking her isn't her owner. She is so sweet, she was cuddled up in my lap, licking my face. She didn't deserve it at all.

Looking back now on the boxer incident with the benefit of a day's space, it looked very much like the few times he's had a go at Willow over raw meat. That has happened maybe five times in their entire lives, and always when they're in too close proximity with the high arousal of the food around. Yesterday, Shadow had been chasing snowballs and was still bit wired when Patsy went up and essentially ran straight into him (because she's a doofus a bit like Squidge). I was not in the mood to make excuses for him yesterday, and still don't mean to be dismissive, because I'm really not, but comparing it to how he's been with his own sister and how I've never been worried by that in the past helps with a bit of perspective.

Once J had taken Shadow away, and Patsy had had her cuddles, she and Squidge had a lovely play, but the dog walker did look a bit worried when Squidge had her mouth right around Patsy's throat. "Errr.... is that OK?". "Oh, gosh, yes, it's Squidge! She doesn't have a bad bone in her body!". Next minute, Patsy wriggles free and jumps on Squidge's head... :)

Life would be a lot easier if all dogs were Patsies and Squidges...
 
I'm very sorry to read this Fiona. It's so tough when training takes a bit of a backward step especially when you work so hard. As you always advise us, "tomorrow is another day" Onwards and upwards, keep going. xxx Hugs to you and Shadow xxx:hug::hug:
 
@Jelinga Thank you for thinking of me! I've read the abstract and will work my way through the rest this evening. IT's such a difficult topic, with it always being a combination of genetics and environment, and I think there has to be careful consideration of performing genetic tests on this sort of thing because of that, but the more information we have, the better :)
 
Yesterday, I went for another lovely mountain walk with the Labs and W&S's sister Annie. Where we went, and at the time we went, there is pretty much a guarantee of no other dogs. If Shadow wasn't a retriever, I would keep his muzzle on at all times now, but he loves to chase cones, dig for them and so forth, and that's an important part of his enrichment, so the muzzle is off when I am pretty sure we won't meet another dog.
And, we didn't for the whole of the walk, but as we walked back down towards the road, I saw a very pale GR in the road with a man. I immediately grabbed Shadow and put him on lead, but at that point I thought it was a female GR we'd seen the day before, who Shadow was fine with. In any event, the sight of another dog meant his muzzle had to go on, and then I choose whether he can come off lead or not. It pretty soon became apparent it wasn't the same dog - this one was slim, the other one was FAT - so it was just coincidence that we met two very pale GRs in the space of two days in exactly the same place.

It's hard to paint a picture of the scene, but I'll try. The bank down to the road is very steep, and the snow was very soft and very deep - what we like to call "elephant snot" when we're skiing on it. Basically, it's been in the sun all day, getting slushy, but still about thigh deep. I had my snow shoes on, but they make me unstable. My friend (Annie's mum) asked what she could do, so I asked her to take my snow shoes - this meant I would sink deeper, but was better balanced. I had to make my way down to the road. The dog's owner was sat on a wall on our side of the road, facing away from us and not paying any attention. He had looked up as I was putting Shadow's muzzle on, so he obviously knew that he needed managing, but then he turned back and ignored us as his dog sniffed around the girls.

The GR was very friendly, and the three girls were all totally fine with him, and my friend took them on a slightly loopier route around to the road while to let me take Shadow a more direct route to try to keep our distance from him, and hopefully get Shadow into the car (which was right where we got down to the road) before he met the dog.

Now, had I let Shadow off lead, he would probably have been OK with this dog, but I wasn't going to do that without getting his muzzle on. And in the time I did that, the dog had got too close and he had started to react. Nothing major, just huffing, but I know that he's gone "over" by that point, and if I let him off, he would have a go at the other dog.

So, here's the thing. I am the owner of a dick dog. It doesn't matter WHY he's a dick, and it doesn't matter HOW he's a dick. In these situations, I have several things in mind.

> I want to protect my dog. I want to protect him from getting so stressed he has to react - every time he reacts means he's more likely to react in the future. He reacts because he can't cope with the situation any other way, and that is my failure to protect him.
> I want to protect my dog from whatever the other dog or owner might do if he reacts. Both dog and owner might take offence to his behaviour (and I'm not saying that's wrong) and lash out at him.
> I need to protect my dog from any complaints that might be made against him. If he is reported as being a "dangerous dog", life would become SO much more difficult for us.
> I want to protect the other dog. Not from physical harm, because I know that's not Shadow's intent, otherwise he would have caused harm. It's all noise and show. But, this sort of event happening to Shadow again and again when he was young, combined with how I responded to it, is how Shadow ended up as Shadow. I want to protect the other dog from feeling like they have to become reactive.

During these situations, I don't have time or focus to give the other owner. I almost never talk to them; if I shout out, it stresses Shadow. I try to just go into management mode. This is not a time for counter-conditioning, this is a time for getting out of Dodge. I just hope against all hope that they are switched on enough to manage their dog so that the situation doesn't escalate. I certainly don't count on it, which is just as well, because it's really uncommon for people to have the slightest clue.

So, there we are, my friend and the three female Labs working their way down to the road as the GR mooches around them; me in very deep snotty snow shoving food down Shadow's neck as fast as I can get it through the muzzle. I gave it a short while for the guy to call his dog away, but it was obvious he wasn't going to, so I started straight down the steep bank to the road myself. The GR started up the bank towards us. At this point, I had no choice but to stress Shadow more - I couldn't have this dog come up to him while he felt vulnerable on lead. So I got in front, put out my "policeman hand" and said "NO!". This dog - a goofy youngster - ignored me and continued to approach. So, again, I had to go into management. I just hung onto Shadow's collar with both hands to stop him lunging - in this snow, if he lunged against the end of the leash, I wouldn't have had a chance of holding him, so I had to keep him in close. I couldn't feed him like this, and it was obvious he felt awful; this dog was invading his personal space. He started growling and snarling, an unpleasant sound, and at last, the owner called his dog away, throwing a snowball up the far bank.
This gave me the time to get down the hill a little way, before the dog came running back to us. Again, Shadow snarled; again, the guy threw a snowball. At last, I managed to get Shadow to the car and into the back, where he continued to bark at this dog who came over to say hi to me.

This dog was delightful. Two years old, a real softy. Obviously doesn't have a bad bone in his body, and doesn't realise that other dogs might like to cause him harm. That's great, I love his enthusiasm and joie de vivre.

I understand that the guy thinks that his dog is so "good with other dogs" that no other dog could possibly have an issue with him.

We got into the car, and my friend said, "I can't believe he didn't do anything! He saw you putting the muzzle on Shadow. He must have known there was an issue there. But he didn't do anything!"

This isn't a rant. The old me would have ranted. Now, I think how lovely it is for him that he doesn't understand. I can't blame him for not understanding. I don't have the time or energy to try to educate people in the moment; I needed to get out of there. He was nice, his dog was nice. In another situation, Shadow and he might have been OK together. As it was, circumstances didn't allow for that.

But the feeling of responsibility is just overwhelming. The feelings of shame that he's like that in the first place. The feelings of being unable to control a situation so he doesn't end up having to react. Feeling as if I have to protect the other dog from bad experiences that might cause him to become reactive himself. Trying to balance giving my dog the best life whilst protecting him and everyone else.

It's totally, and utterly exhausting.
 
Please don't feel shame, dogs are dogs. Rourke can suddenly be like that, thought when I have met forum members and have the courage to just let him go, he is perfectly fine. My dog trainer says, do not engage with the other owner, just concentrate on your own dog and walk by as if it very boring. Mostly I think our dogs react through fear, once Rourke knows a dog he is absolutely fine. However, it is concerning when a dog comes over, even if it is the most friendly dog, people say. 'oh it's alright, my dog is friendly' I reply, 'mine isn't always'!
 
:'( I don't know what to say to help you feel better. A few things are formulating in my mind, but for starters I think from looking at happy Shadow on your video's, you give him a brilliant life.
 
My dog trainer says, do not engage with the other owner, just concentrate on your own dog and walk by as if it very boring.
This is a big problem here, you can't just "walk past" when the snow is like this. The paths are very narrow and if you step off the side, you are up to your knees at least. This evening, I climbed about 10m up a steep bank in thigh-deep snow to get enough distance that another dog might be able to pass without Shadow reacting. When you know that, if you meet on the path (which is about a foot wide), you will have an issue - and just approaching head-on like that is hugely difficult - you can't just act normally to get out of the way. And you can't just about-turn because you need to go that way!
 

Emily_Babbelhund

Mama Red HOT Pepper
I can so empathise - such a boatload of terrible feelings. You already know you handled the situation brilliantly and did the best thing for everyone, but 'utterly exhausting' describes it perfectly.

Thank you for sharing this - it's helpful for anyone with a reactive dog to realise that even the best professionally-educated and experienced handlers can feel overwhelmed with a reactive dog who they love and for whom they are responsible.

Though nowhere near the challenges you have with Shadow, I had a less than sterling moment with Carbon yesterday and totally felt that shame and also in my case the sense that I was at the end of my rope. So when I say above 'it's helpful for anyone with a reactive dog', I'm including myself. :)
 
Gosh Fiona, I can't think of a single person that would handle these situations as well as you do. It's difficult, stressful and an emotional roller coaster for you. I just wish other owners could be more respectful, it doesn't take much. I can't think of anything to make you feel better but know I am sending you lots of :hug::hug::hug: and Shadow too :hug::hug::hug:xxx
 

Joy

Location
East Sussex
You did absolutely the best you could for Shadow and everyone else in that situation, and yes it must have been exhausting physically and emotionally. My last dog, an incredibly gentle boy in almost all other situations, could be reactive to other dogs in confined spaces (narrow paths etc) and in the end I just avoided those situations wherever possible. It must be very difficult for you in the environment you live in at the moment. You must be looking forward to heading back to Spain.
 

HAH

Moderator
Location
Devon, UK
Oh man, I feel your weight on this. I’m the owner of the other dog, and used to be the blithe ‘its okay, he’s friendly!’ person until (growing up) we had a troubled GSD who wanted to eat black labradors (and men, and hoovers etc) whenever he saw them and I realised how bl**dy unhelpful it was.

I’m just really sorry how difficult it is. I guess at least once the snow subsides there’ll be more escape routes, but in the meantime I hope Shadow is given plenty of space by others to let you both regain your equilibrium x
 
But the feeling of responsibility is just overwhelming. The feelings of shame that he's like that in the first place. The feelings of being unable to control a situation so he doesn't end up having to react. Feeling as if I have to protect the other dog from bad experiences that might cause him to become reactive himself. Trying to balance giving my dog the best life whilst protecting him and everyone else
Oh, how I do know this feeling!!!
 

Cath

MLF Sales Coordinator
The feelings of shame that he's like that in the first place
You have nothing to be ashamed of. You care for Shadow and other peoples dogs in a difficult situation . You do a wonderful job. Fiona you do your best and no one could do more. Tomorrow is another day, be kind to yourself :hug:
 

Lisa

Moderator
Location
Alberta, Canada
So sorry you’ve had this happen. You did the best you could and the other dog wasn’t harmed, which is a good thing. It’s so hard to have to be thinking about this and managing it constantly, but unfortunately it’s the way it is at the moment. You are working so hard with your pooches and you are doing brilliantly with them. Don’t be too hard on yourself! Sending hugs...hope you have a relaxing weekend to make up for it. :hug::hug:
 
Top