Sleeping arrangements

[Parodius]

Just wondering what arrangements people have for their dogs overnight, do they sleep with you or in your bed or do they stay downstairs/in another room? What works for you? Neo is now 9months and currently he sleeps in his crate overnight in the lounge and we have a little webcam set up to keep an eye on him. Unfortunately we still need the crate as he is currently a chewer and mostly eats what he chews so it’s for his safety.

He is generally good as gold during the night however his morning wake ups have always been early and are getting earlier by the day. He starts singing the song of his people around 530 and stops when he hears someone getting up.

If it was toilet related I wouldn’t mind at all but when we go to him he happily comes out of his crate, hops up on the sofa and curls up straight back to sleep again! I’ve tried setting an alarm for before he wakes up but he just adjusts to beat us to the punch. Have also tried taking him outside for a wee break (he doesn’t go) then back in the crate but he won’t settle down again.

We have tried staying up later, going to bed earlier, night lights, no lights, radio on/off, items of worn clothing left with him etc but nothing seems to make a difference, I think he just wants company. L thinks we should try him upstairs in a pen in the bedroom but I’m concerned he doesn’t have much time alone as it is as I’m currently out of work and that this won’t help with his confidence being on his own or maybe I’m overthinking it (a very distinct possibility!)? Ultimately, we all need sleeeeeeep! Apologies for waffling, any tips or ideas much appreciated.

 

[Boogie]

I wouldn’t worry about his time alone. He won’t associate this with night times.

Personally I would do what works at night time. At the same time I’d work hard at getting him used to being on his own for a time during the day by starting with just a few minutes.

My eight GD pups were not allowed upstairs at all so sometimes I ended up sleeping by the crate until they were happy on their own. Some did the early waking but they all grew out of it. We didn’t feed them until 7:30 whatever time they woke up, so that they didn’t associate waking with food.

Tatze has always been fine downstairs. But she went to a different friend for her holidays recently and decided she didn’t want to be alone and howled! She ended up on their bed! When she got home she just reverted back to normal - on her bed in the utility room.

 

[Selina27]

Cassie doesn't sleep upstairs but is downstairs in the kitchen, only coming up to my bed in the morning when I have my cup of tea.
Two things occur to me from your post, if he sleeps ok overnight would it be possible to leave him uncrated with no access to chewable/edible items and a comfy bed (for example, a sofa!)
Secondly, if he stops when he hears you about then perhaps he finds that singing is rewarding. Maybe you would need to go down when he is quiet so that he learns that that will get him what he wants. If that makes sense!
I'm not a knowledgeable dog trainer, just an owner, but these are my thoughts

 

[UncleBob]

Hi there,

... He starts singing the song of his people around 530 and stops when he hears someone getting up. ...

Not wishing to make light of your post but I couldn't help but smile at this part - it sounds as though Neo is training you! ;-)

Seriously though, this sounds very similar to the scenario where dogs bark at the window when somebody is walking by. The person is obviously going somewhere and so eventually pass out of sight - but in the dog's mind, they equate their barking with the person going away. As a result, they think 'that works' and so keep barking every time it happens.

Were it me, I think that I would try gradually extending the time that you get up. 5:40, 5:50, 6:00 and so on until you are at the point where Neo has a new wake-up time.

Edit: Harvey sleeps downstairs in his crate.

Edit2: I wouldn't 'try' Neo upstairs. That will be something else that he may get used to and be difficult to reverse. (There is nothing wrong with doing this, and many people do, just be aware that it may not be the solution to the current issue.)

 

[Emily]

We're in a single storey house, that's not really separated into bedrooms one end and living the other. Ella sleeps in multiple spots, where ever she wants. We still have her crate set up as it's a safe spot away from our 18 month old, plus it's handy for her to go in there sometimes (e.g. if the kids are eating grapes) but most of the time it's just open. Ella sleeps on any of the couches, her crate, her bed in our room, our bed or any of the floors if it's a hot night.

This hasn't always been the case though. We didn't crate train until she was 18 months but we used to have a gated section of our laundry and part of our kitchen. She slept in there, with the gate closed, until afte 1. Then we moved the gate and gave her the whole laundry and kitchen and then eventually the whole house.

 

[Emily]

He starts singing the song of his people around 530 and stops when he hears someone getting up

Sorry, meant to add that this was a massive issue for us. When she was still "locked" in the kitchen, she worked out that we all got up as soon as our eldest son (probably 8 or 9 months at the time) got up. She also very quickly realised that if she started whining from behind the gate, she'd wake up Nathan and the day would start (aka her breakfast time).

This stopped when we gave her access to the house but briefly came back a tear or so later when she started going into his room in the morning and nudging him with her nose until he woke up

 

[kateincornwall]

We live in a bungalow , ours have free access to wherever they want to go . Reuben has his own bed in the bedroom, sometimes he sleeps in it , sometimes he gets onto the bed but other times he choses to stay in the sitting room and have the sofa to himself Having been retired for 15 years , I realise that it is very different when work comes into the situation and to be honest, we would have been better setting some boundaries when he was a puppy x

 

[Atemas]

Personally I would do what works at night time. At the same time I’d work hard at getting him used to being on his own for a time during the day by starting with just a few minutes.

I think this is a good plan. If sleeping upstairs stops Neo dictating when you get up, then go for it but it has to feel right for you.

Red sleeps in the utility room with the door shut at night. It’s also where she goes when we go out. She can’t wait to get in there at nighttime as she gets her fishy bedtime treats . I think she likes her time alone as she goes in there very willingly. She did sleep in a crate for nearly a year until we got past the chewing stage.

 

[Jacqui-S]

Lilly and Oreo have free access to the house now and chose to sleep on their own beds or ours ( well aimed foot comes in useful at times, Lilly takes a hint).
They have beds in the bedrooms and our "sitting room".

Lilly also went through a phase of early awakening somewhere between 6 and 12 months. She was crate trained from the start and loved her crate. Unfortunately on the advise of a trainer (pre forum) we used a aversive method of discouraging her early morning singing. I think she has forgiven us though. Sorry not much help on the fix, just sending my sympathy.

Edited to add, the key is not reinforcing the behaviour, so let your dog cry and not give a positive response. But that hard. Does he need a pee? Will he wake the household/neighbours.........yup, decisions decisions....

 

[Emily_Babbelhund]

All my dogs have slept with me. Carbon sleeps with me and insists on doing so under the covers. He's very pushy about it and while I grumble sometimes, in fact I'm delighted with this situation.

For the few puppies I've had, as soon as they were housetrained, up to the bed they came. Before then, their crate was next to my bed where I could see them. Actually Carbon was the same, even though he was probably a year old when he came as a foster. I just love having dogs in the bed, so pretty much as soon as I'm assured they won't wee on my pillow - or eat it - they can sleep on the bed.

I do usually keep the crate for quite a while after that, as place they can go if they want (door kept open), or to be fed (when I have multiple dogs) or if I have to step out without them for a bit and don't quite trust them yet not to eat the sofa.

None of that helps you at all, but my opinion for what it's worth is that there is no bad solution except the one that doesn't work for you. In your situation, I'd just bring him up to the bedroom and get some sleep - everybody's happy! - but you can probably see that would be my solution regardless.

As for the "they need time alone to learn to be alone", I have to admit that I've never really understood this despite hearing stuff like that for YEARS from trainers who are horrified that my dogs are pretty much never alone. I've gotten to the point with Carbon that I just lie to his trainer about this "alone training" as she's so devoted to the idea. Granted it's a small sample size, but despite not purposefully leaving them alone all my pups have been just fine being left alone when I need to do it. In fact, I'm quite sure that I'm the one who needs the training on how to leave my dog alone, not vice versa.

 

[Parodius]

Thanks all for your comments and ideas, it’s so hard to know what the right approach is at times and I’m forever second guessing myself. There is a fine line between him having more freedom to make his own choices and keeping him safe when you know he’s prone to making the wrong ones a lot of the time!

I’m contemplating moving his crate into the dining room and leaving the door open so he can choose to go in it or use a different bed as it will be a lot easier to take down the table and ‘chew proof’ that room, plus I’m more of a TV dinner person anyway. My lounge already looks like Alcatraz and he still manages to get into something he shouldn’t if left to his own devices. Maybe if he has a choice of places to kip he might be happier for longer in the mornings, or maybe that’s wishful thinking on my part!

I do try and give him ‘alone time’ during the day, although I’m mostly still in the house, and we’ve worked up to about an hour or so. He has a frozen Tux in his crate after morning walkies so I can do some practical things like showering and 90% of the time he is fine with it and has a sleep after he finishes, although sometimes his FOMO will kick in.

We still have a lot to work on but hopefully if we can get the sleep situation under control and I’m not so tired all the time it will help with everything else

 

[Jacqui-S]

not so tired all the time it will help with everything else

Totally this.
No sleep does you no favours.
Working on settling in the crate really helps this in my opinion.

 

[edzbird]

Ours sleep, ahem, on our bed. Both of them. On our double bed. There is little room for us. Meg starts off in her own bed, but jumps up any time from 12:30AM onwards. Coco starts off on our bed. It is not ideal.

 

[Naya]

I tried to get Harley to sleep in her crate downstairs, but gave up after a few weeks. We brought her up to our room and put her on her bed on the floor next to my side of the bed. She slept for 8 hours straight! She spent a few weeks there and slept well. One night after doing my teeth, I went into the bedroom and she was asleep at the foot of our bed. OH had been playing with her and she fell asleep. I went to move her and he said ‘leave her just for tonight’……..she’s been there ever since . We even brought a king size bed as she likes to sprawl

 

[Candy]

All my dogs have always slept in their own beds in our bedroom. I always start them off as tiny pups right by the side of my bed so that if they cry in the night I can reach out and comfort them. Not one of them has needed comforting beyond the first night. I have then gradually moved the dog bed away to a more convenient place, still within my bedroom and they have all been fine with this. Recently Joy, now nearly five, has started to sleep back by my side of the bed like she did as a tiny pup. I have no idea what has brought this on but it's no problem, infact it's quite nice to be able to reach out to her for snuggles in the middle of the night, so there she stays until she changes her mind. As far as I'm concerned there are no hard and fast rules, it's just about what works and keeps everyone happy.

 

[snowbunny]

Right now I am sleeping in the downstairs bedroom specifically so that Ginny can sleep on the bed with me. As she’s not able to come on walks anymore, I feel it’s important to sleep together for her social well-being.
Right now this minute I’m laying in the double bed on my right side. Squidge has her head on the pillow behind me and is squished against my back. I am spooning Shadow. Ginny is tucked in behind my knees and Nugget is by my feet.
Meanwhile, Willow has her choice of sofas and dog beds in the living room

For those concerned that once you let them sleep with you you can’t go back, it’s not a problem I have. In Andorrà they’re not generally allowed in the bedroom. If I’m there alone with one dog, they do. Otherwise, the door is closed and they settle down in the living room. There’s no fuss at all. Some nights I just need sleep and so the dogs are excluded from the bedroom. They have plenty of other options, and as much as their first choice is generally being with me, if they can’t get on the bed for whatever reason, they just find another option.

 

[Jacqui-S]

Ginny is tucked in behind my knees

That is my favourite place for Lilly to snuggle

 

[Parodius]

That is my favourite place for Lilly to snuggle

Yes, there’s something about dog snuggles, can’t beat it (even with those elbows!).

I anticipate Neo will graduate to the bedroom in time once he’s more trustworthy but at the moment I think I will be setting myself up for less sleep than I already get! I also worry a bit about the future, my previous girl Billie had the run of the house and slept in the bedroom or on the bed. I lived in a ground floor flat at the time but moved to a house when she was about 13, unfortunately by that time she had arthritis in her back legs and cushings amongst other things and she couldn’t manage the stairs safely so she sometimes got stressed not being able to sleep with me. I spent a lot of her last 9 months or so sleeping on the sofa with her which I would do again but I’m hoping that Neo will grow to be comfortable overnight either way.

I’ll turn the dining room into his ‘bedroom’ at the weekend and see how he likes the extra space, hopefully sweet dreams for all are on the horizon…..

 

[Parodius]

So my plan has so far been an epic fail I cleared out the dining room last Saturday, fitted a baby gate and moved his crate in there together with a couple of other beds. Introduced him to the new set up earlier in the day and had some snacks and play etc in there. On the first night I put him in the room and left the crate door open and he just wouldn’t settle and barked the place down till eventually I put him in his crate with the door closed and he finally settled down.

Since then the crate door has remained closed overnight to try and get him used to being in the new room and it has been one disaster after another, the highlight being a 3am wake up for no discernible reason (no toilet etc needed) and then wouldn’t settle back down. He is also no longer happy to spend any time in his crate during the day whereas he was mainly ok with it before. Now once he has finished his frozen tux instead of having a kip he just barks and whines constantly.

Basically, I’ve misjudged it and in trying to give him more space I have made a real mistake and made the situation worse. I feel I am in over my head so have a phone call booked with a behaviourist next week to try and help with this and some other issues but just wondering peoples opinions in the meantime on moving the crate back to the lounge where it was before in the hope he will be happy to settle again during the day, or has the damage likely been done now? Also, what are peoples thoughts on leaving him to bark in the crate and/or room during the day until he calms down? He only goes in tired after a walk and with a frozen treat. It has never sat very well with me but I’m aware that by going to him when he does kick off this is probably what has caused the problem in the first place. I always wait for a brief period of quiet but wouldn’t say he is calm at that point.

Sorry for the essay, I think if it was just this one thing I would be able to manage it better but combined with his terrible FOMO, alert barking and stick eating on walks (which I think is a frustration thing and fills me with anxiety he will get ill), it’s all getting on top of me at the moment. He is such a loving boy and is so good in other areas, I just want him to be able to relax in his own home and feel like I’m getting things very wrong.

 

[kateincornwall]

Please dont despair , it is never too late to put things right . We all make errors of judgement so you are not alone in this . Thing is, they all may be Labradors but they differ so much in their needs and preferences so I think you do right to take on board some advice . Definitely try putting him back into your lounge if he was happier there, its all trial and error with them and eventually we get it right