The Labraventures of Carbón, Spanish (ex-) foster dog extraordinaire

[Boogie]

PS - ‘professional’

 

[Candy]

Joy is also desperate to meet other dogs and people too, unusually for her as she tends to be cautious around new people. I'm convinced it's lockdown related and hope that it will be resolved when things get a bit more normal. Of course Joy is about half the weight of Echo, so it's not so much of a problem for me, just something I've noticed that is a change in behaviour.

 

[Emily_Babbelhund]

I met one lady who appeared to be saintly all the time and it just made me want punch her in the nose

 

[Emily_Babbelhund]

Big bumps - I nearly sent him back yesterday!

Wow, you're right - that's a pretty big bump. Though I know you mean it within the context of his guide dog training.

He goes wild every time he sees another dog, which makes me avoid other dogs, which makes him go wilder every time he sees another dog.

Ooo, I feel your pain.

Right at the moment I'm either not putting Carbon in situations where he needs recall away from other dogs or if I do, then my attitude is just "go and be free, my child" and let him do what he wants. There is not enough liver in the world to get him to come away from a fun dog after so many weeks of just me.

His recall while in solitary locations is really good, even with yummy smells. But away from dogs? We're toast. Whatever we gained in Jan/Feb, which is admittedly not much, is gone.

More of a worry is the on-lead reactivity which has come back. Not raging, but we were down to it happening in less than 5% of dog interactions and now I'd say we're at 25%.

As Carbon would say, "No bueno".

 

[Emily_Babbelhund]

Here we are again at SD training Wednesday - how does it go so quickly?

This week my assignment was to film three training sessions. At the end of each session, I was to carefully watch the video and make commentary about what was working, what was not and what to improve for the following session.

Warning, it is LONG. Even my SD trainer didn't want to watch all of it. However it was a good exercise for me and I learned a lot, even if I'm the only one who watches it all.

Carbon is still feeling the effects of my cold shoulder treatment from over two weeks ago. This just breaks my heart to see him cringe and retreat to his crate. It surprised me that he's continuing to have issues around this as he's normally such a resilient dog, but as our trainer pointed out, for him - and coming from me - having training abruptly stopped and then being ignored was worse punishment than being physically hit.

Rest assured that when we are not training, Carbon is still super affectionate and happy with me. But while training, certain things send him in to cower mode. It's very upsetting to watch, but if I'm going to learn and NEVER have him feel this way again, I have to learn and change.

 

[Cath]

Well I watched it all Emily. Try not to be too hard on yourself. Do you every sit on the floor with Carbon when he is upset. I know when Fred is upset, I sit on the floor and he comes over and lays down with me. I know he feels safe and happy after a cuddle. Carbon adores you.

 

[Emily_Babbelhund]

Well I watched it all Emily. Try not to be too hard on yourself. Do you every sit on the floor with Carbon when he is upset. I know when Fred is upset, I sit on the floor and he comes over and lays down with me. I know he feels safe and happy after a cuddle. Carbon adores you.

Thanks, @Cath . That's sweet that you and Fred do floor cuddles. Carbon and I do cuddle all the time - sofa, floor, bed - he's a cuddle bug. This behaviour is happening only during training. When we stop, it stops. As I discovered in filming the video, it's tied to the sit and to my "all done" cue.

And after re-reading what I wrote, just to clarify, I didn't intend to punish him by stopping training and ignoring him. In fact as I was losing my cool out of frustration, I honestly thought the best thing to do was to disengage until I cooled off. Evidently Carbon viewed all that very differently.

 

[Cath]

Well now you know what is happening I am sure you will sort it out Emily. I know you wouldn't punish him, you love him. Can you change your
all done cue to say, OK or something? Try to be kind to yourself, this lockdown is not helping you or anyone.

 

[Emily_Babbelhund]

Can you change your
all done cue to say, OK or something?

Yes, our trainer asked to change his release cue as the one we have now is 'poisoned' (dog trainer lingo?). So now I need to figure a new one out. "Purple sausages"? Everybody loves a sausage and I love purple, so only happy thoughts there!

 

[HAH]

I watched this all the way through too @Emily_Babbelhund , and noticed a couple of things. Firstly, when you’re frustrated/off centre, your body language reflects it (duh...). But this is interesting in terms of seeing a direct correlation to Carbon’s reaction. And you have a lot of repetitions. This might be part of your training, or it might be another indication of frustration; trying to get it right, or end on a high. I wondered if basic tweaks like using a timer might help this, if it’s not intentional.
The thing I noticed more than anything is the level of engagement you two have. It’s really very beautiful but quite reasonably something you might see as background noise. But the way he watches you, and aims to please; and crucially, vice versa - it’s really a special relationship you have. Don’t lose sight of it. The frustrations will come good; it’s a weird time for both of you, regardless of the many weird times you’ve shared Keep in mind you have a very solid core, and the rest will build back around it. You’re doing great

 

[Candy]

I watched this all the way through too @Emily_Babbelhund , and noticed a couple of things. Firstly, when you’re frustrated/off centre, your body language reflects it (duh...). But this is interesting in terms of seeing a direct correlation to Carbon’s reaction. And you have a lot of repetitions. This might be part of your training, or it might be another indication of frustration; trying to get it right, or end on a high. I wondered if basic tweaks like using a timer might help this, if it’s not intentional.
The thing I noticed more than anything is the level of engagement you two have. It’s really very beautiful but quite reasonably something you might see as background noise. But the way he watches you, and aims to please; and crucially, vice versa - it’s really a special relationship you have. Don’t lose sight of it. The frustrations will come good; it’s a weird time for both of you, regardless of the many weird times you’ve shared Keep in mind you have a very solid core, and the rest will build back around it. You’re doing great

Yes! Exactly. I think many people never get to this stage of a relationship with their dog, so you are both doing brilliantly !
Pee Ess is it OK to also say that I love your clothes? You always look beautiful!

 

[Atemas]

I think my thoughts @Emily_Babbelhund are how long will this training last? Are you ‘allowed’ to take a break for a period of time? I suppose from an outsider view it seems very intense and it is so clear you have an amazing bond with dear Carbon. When is it ok to say you have trained enough and just see how those skills can be used naturally? I hope this doesn’t come across as negative as it’s not meant to be at all - just being a questioning so and so

 

[Natalie]

Are you ‘allowed’ to take a break for a period of time? I suppose from an outsider view it seems very intense

I
I wondered about a break too - would a fortnight of long walks, some play with other dogs, fun house games help to 'reset'? I know he clearly enjoys the training, but a short hiatus might make him more enthusiastic to restart again.

 

[Joy]

Emily, I love your thoughtful reflection, that you really think hard about keeping Carbon happy. I wonder if ending the session with a long tail-off might help keep positve thoughts in Carbon's mind- so after the last exercise, play together with a toy and then sit down and have a relaxing cuddle/ massage, following which you just quietly get up and potter off to do whatever you need to do next. (I know trainers -including me-usually recommend having an 'all done' signal but I wonder if for Carbon a more gradual ease-out might be better.)

Although your focus is on 'stand' I wonder if cueing other behaviours while he is standing on the box (such as sit, down, give a paw etc) would let him know that it is ok to do other things on the box and also make it more varied and interesting for him. I wonder if the box itself has for some reason developed an unpleasant association in Carbon's mind and perhaps you could change to a mat or front paw target, like a book.

There were a lot of repetitions (although I do realise you edited out the play breaks). A little while ago I read 'Train the Dog in Front of You' by Denise Fenzi and it transformed the way I work with Molly and hugely improved her willingness to engage. It was essentially about analysing your dog's learning style, one aspect of which is whether they do best with lots of repetitions (drilling) - and apparently some dogs really do respond well to this - or whether they do better if you do a very limited number. So with Molly I now do only three of the one exercise that is our real focus, then 3x another easy exercise, then 3x a different easy exercise and then back to 3x the real focus exercise. The book said that you should change after 3x even if the dog hasn't done it correctly - and when you come back to it in the cycle change it to make it easier.

Carbon is lucky to have you!

 

[Loraseal]

@Emily_Babbelhund sorry that you are beating yourself up about this and feel frustrated.
I have never seen a tail wag so much!
I have little experience in the training field but one thing I see is the very special relationship the two of you have.
Maybe the sessions are a little too intense for him? I know I am also too intense with my son at the moment and need to back off! Being intense I mean! The isolation also does not help.
It is also very obvious to me that he really really wants to please you. Training or just being with you.
Carbon is a master at reading your body language and maybe he is a also a little fearful of failing you?
Training is not easy and there will always be blips.
At the end of the day you are doing a fantastic job with him!

 

[Cath]

How about a day out on the beach @Emily_Babbelhund, it would do you both good

 

[Boogie]

That jogged a memory with me @Loraseal - I used to get that way with my son. Too much too often.

Mind you, it didn’t take long before he was way beyond me in all subjects!

I do admire your persistence and perfectionism @Emily_Babbelhund as I have neither!

I‘ve pretty much given up with Echo, but he’s not ‘mine’ so my feeling is that he’ll soon be someone else’s dilemma! (Yes, I love him and will miss him terribly, but I’m sure you know what I mean )

 

[Emily_Babbelhund]

Thanks for all the ideas and encouragement, it's really helpful.

Firstly, when you’re frustrated/off centre, your body language reflects it (duh...). But this is interesting in terms of seeing a direct correlation to Carbon’s reaction.

Oh yes, he definitely notices! It's one thing about him that I'm only now noticing - at first when he came out of the shelter, he really didn't read people because he had no experience. He's now made up for that in leaps and bounds. I still don't think he reads OTHER people all that well, but he sure does read me! Brogan was very sensitive to me - a sideways look could tell him not to go haring off after something - but I've thought of Carbon up until now as happily clueless to my little tells. No more! That means I need to swing my own behaviour back around to more the way I was with Brogan, which was to really be aware of my body language and facial expressions. I'll work on it and keep watching the videos to see what I can do differently.

nd you have a lot of repetitions. This might be part of your training, or it might be another indication of frustration; trying to get it right, or end on a high. I wondered if basic tweaks like using a timer might help this, if it’s not intentional.

This is my WORST training habit. A YEAR our trainer has been pretty much saying to me every week: do two sets and done. I find this SO hard. Even when I think I'm only doing two sets (like in Day 2 of the video) when I rewatch, there I am asking Carbon to do something 20 times. Poor Donna (our trainer), I think she's probably got "break it down into smaller bits" and "only do two reps" on record for me by now. Just play play (again).

Part of it is this is the way I learn best myself - drill, drill, drill. Also this is the way Brogan learned best. You can drill the holy heck out of a typical Rottie and they love it. But Carbon is different and just gets bored. I'll just keep trying to drill this into my hard head.

I think my thoughts @Emily_Babbelhund are how long will this training last?

"How long will it last?" - well technically we could have been done about now but I'm so slow that we've got a long way to go yet. Carbon learns very quickly and with a proper trainer (vs. an owner-trainer) likely would have been done within a year. Sigh. But he's got me and we just get on with it.

Are you ‘allowed’ to take a break for a period of time?

Of course we can take breaks any time. In fact as I'm moving back to Germany in less than two weeks now, I've asked his trainer that we don't do any more weekly sessions until we're back in Germany.

When is it ok to say you have trained enough and just see how those skills can be used naturally?

That's always a good question with an owner-trained service dog. With Brogan it was more clear cut: we trained for six months, took the certification and that was the end of formal training. Naturally as a team we continued to learn and grow on our own, but we didn't take more classes.

With Carbon, unfortunately ADI certification in our circumstances is no longer possible so we don't have a specific testing date as a goal. That's made all this go longer because I do better with deadlines.

However many of the behaviours that he has learned are now just part of everyday life. He's been helping me with stairs from almost the beginning, his settle skills get a workout daily, as do scores of other things we've learned. I'm particularly proud of what we learned last summer to prep for airline travel (backing, going under, wait and recall to go through security, etc.). He's now had nine flights, most long haul. So even if we're not fully cooked as a team, he's using his skills.

I wondered about a break too - would a fortnight of long walks, some play with other dogs, fun house games help to 'reset'? I know he clearly enjoys the training, but a short hiatus might make him more enthusiastic to restart again.

I think I actually need a break more than he does. But yeah, we'll be getting our break with the move back to Germany. Lots of chances to use what we've learned in the real world (something we've not done much of with lockdown) and a chance to miss training by the time we officially come back to it mid-July.

I wonder if ending the session with a long tail-off might help keep positve thoughts in Carbon's mind- so after the last exercise, play together with a toy and then sit down and have a relaxing cuddle/ massage, following which you just quietly get up and potter off to do whatever you need to do next. (I know trainers -including me-usually recommend having an 'all done' signal but I wonder if for Carbon a more gradual ease-out might be better.)

This is a really good idea and goes along with what our trainer told us yesterday about not 'poisoning' a new release cue. You have to be consistent and build better experiences, not just change the name of cue. Don't tell her, but you've explained a way to do that better than she did. Thank you!

Although your focus is on 'stand' I wonder if cueing other behaviours while he is standing on the box (such as sit, down, give a paw etc) would let him know that it is ok to do other things on the box and also make it more varied and interesting for him. I wonder if the box itself has for some reason developed an unpleasant association in Carbon's mind and perhaps you could change to a mat or front paw target, like a book.

We did do this on day three of yesterday's video, though it may not have been so obvious because of the editing. I also thought the box was the problem, but it turned out the two sticking point are sitting and the 'all done' signal. At least as of yesterday. If there is an issue with the box, it's staying her in Cornwall (it's a bureau drawer) so we'll be back to other things in Germany so he'll have a change.

There were a lot of repetitions (although I do realise you edited out the play breaks). A little while ago I read 'Train the Dog in Front of You' by Denise Fenzi and it transformed the way I work with Molly and hugely improved her willingness to engage. It was essentially about analysing your dog's learning style, one aspect of which is whether they do best with lots of repetitions (drilling) - and apparently some dogs really do respond well to this - or whether they do better if you do a very limited number. So with Molly I now do only three of the one exercise that is our real focus, then 3x another easy exercise, then 3x a different easy exercise and then back to 3x the real focus exercise. The book said that you should change after 3x even if the dog hasn't done it correctly - and when you come back to it in the cycle change it to make it easier.

Yes, all good stuff and things I'm trying yet somehow not managing yet to do consistently (see my answer above). I've got to get away from drills, which apparently I love oh so dearly.

Maybe the sessions are a little too intense for him? I know I am also too intense with my son at the moment and need to back off! Being intense I mean! The isolation also does not help.

I think the training sessions aren't intense enough in that he gets bored with too many reps of something he's already learned. However the human in front of him (me) is DEFINITELY too intense for him. More breaks, building in what is fun to him (like hand touches vs. settle or stands), and incrementally increasing the criteria at the appropriate time (before he gets bored)...all stuff to improve on my side. But maybe most important: watching my posture, facial feature, voice so that my own frustration doesn't creep in. Or heck, even better, STOPPING before I even feel frustrated. That would be even better!

How about a day out on the beach @Emily_Babbelhund, it would do you both good

How about a morning at the beach? We had a great walk this morning, off lead, plenty of zoomies and even a paddle. Mission accomplished!

Pee Ess is it OK to also say that I love your clothes?

Hey, thank you! I've been benefiting from all the COVID clear-outs people are having by buying used stuff on eBay. Some things don't work (like those trousers I was wearing on Day Two in the video - yikes) but it's been fun. With my current size I feel a bit like I'm dressing a circus tent, but at least I'm a happily-coloured circus tent.

 

[Cath]

How about a morning at the beach? We had a great walk this morning, off lead, plenty of zoomies and even a paddle. Mission accomplished!

That's grand news it will do you both the world of good

 

[Atemas]

So even if we're not fully cooked as a team, he's using his skills.

Yes that’s the important thing. When he’s using those skills naturally in everyday life then every time it’s being reinforced. I don’t know if that makes sense. I know I don‘t have a service dog but I have noticed that Red applies all the things I trained when she was little, when we are out often without me asking for it. Yes there are still things e.g. a better, longer ‘stay’ when we open the hatch of the car to let her out but the more we do it the better she gets. I suppose you will get to that point with Carbon in all the things you need to ask of him