Toffee scared me today

[Cupcase]

I'm so sorry for Toffee and you, it is one of the most terrifying things I have witnessed with Cupar.

I would get him checked by your vet.

You don't need warm weather if a dog has EIC. It doesn't help but it can happen in winter.
However it could be a one off but something, now you are aware of it, you can manage his activities.

Cupar started with EIC when he was about a year old, I panicked and immediately phoned the vets by the time he arrived he was back to normal, however it happened on 2 more occasions and I really was trying to be careful with the amount of exercise he was getting.

First he was tested for EIC and it came back clear, he's not got EIC nor is he a carrier. He was then referred to a specialist and tested for another condition, it came back clear again. We could have went further with testing but the specialist was honest with me, we had tested for the obvious conditions and ruled them out, his heart, bloods everything is fine and he did say it could be a form of EIC that hasn't been discovered yet.

So now I manage his exercise. Which means things that excite him the most are curtailed, warmer weather has to be taken into account, so first thing in a morning etc. I have found that walking on lead for a couple of hours is fine as it's a steady pace and it doesn't excite him that much, only throwing the ball once or twice as this is a stressor, so now we do a lot more sit stay and hide the ball so he finds it rather than chases after it.

I wouldn't allow the use of a ball thrower, this is only my opinion but I think that at least in Cupars eyes a ball being thrown a great distance is extremely high excitement for him which together with the thrill of getting the ball is the chase to get it. Playing with his best friend with NO toys Cupar is fine for running about for an hour, they both naturally stop and take breaks, no toys are ever allowed in these interactions for a couple of reasons.

Sorry I'm not good at giving advice all I can give is examples of how I deal with something, Toffee can be completely different to Cupar but I hope you can see where I'm coming from. I hate to think of other dogs and their owners witnessing this condition.

 

[Stacia]

I agree with @Cupcase, I wouldn't let him chase balls, it is bad for dogs on other levels as well, damaging joints. It could be EIC, I have seen a dog with this and they tend to suddenly fall over, sounds more like heat exhaustion. You can play with a ball, hide it in long grass, let him go and find it, you can even hide a couple of balls and possibly short retrieves with a ball. Might be worth phoning vet and explain what happened and see what they think.

 

[SteffiS]

I never use a ball thrower myself, I think it was the first time Toffee had seen one. I normally just throw the ball for Toffee, or, if we go to the beach his greatest pleasure is burying it and digging it up again.

A lot of dogs parents have been tested for EIC might be worth checking any paperwork you have.

I was thinking that myself, I shall go and check his papers.

 

[Shaz82]

Poor Toffee, that is so scary for you, hope he is ok now, Maisy hates the heat and this humid weather, so do I.

 

[SteffiS]

Nothing on the paperwork about testing for EIC. Definitely going to be having a chat with the vet, unfortunately having moved it’s a new vet who has not met either of the boys so I don’t know how we will get on.

 

[Selina27]

I can totally sympathasize with your worry over this @SteffiS , I'm pleased to hear that he seems fine this morning. This spring/summer has seen the population of hares on our home patch explode, they drive Cassie wild with excitement and I've had a couple of episodes of her over running in pursuit. It really worries me that she will make herself ill. (I am taking steps that this doesn't happen -- but would fill a thread of it's own!).

 

[SteffiS]

Just looked into this a bit more, on the breeders page it does actually state Toffee's father is a carrier. I assume he has been tested for this since Toffee’s litter was born.

 

[SwampDonkey]

If his mums not been tested and his dad's a carrier he could have it. Potentially she could been a carrier too. It might be worth speaking to your breeder or go onto the KC website and research toffees mum and dad. It will give you all their health tests.

 

[Cupcase]

http://www.laboklin.co.uk/laboklin/showGeneticTest.jsp?testID=8152

This is where I got Cupar tested for EIC. I went through my vet and put me in touch with Laboklin and arranged the test directly which is really easy to do and it didn't cost an arm and a leg.
This link also gives you a lot of information on the condition.

 

[snowbunny]

Yes, you need to know the dam's result. You need to know if she is clear, a carrier, or affected. If both HER parents are clear, then she wouldn't have needed to be tested, as she will be what's known as "hereditary clear" - that is, there's no way she could be either a carrier or affected.
If she is clear, then Toffee doesn't have EIC. If she is either affected or a carrier, then there's a chance that he is affected.

There's no problem whatsoever with carriers, and they can be bred from quite happily, as long as they are only bred to dogs who are clear. If, however, mum is a carrier, then a quarter of the puppies will be affected.

Affected means "this dog has EIC". Carrier means "this dog will pass the EIC gene on to 50% of his offspring but he isn't affected by the condition himself".

One would expect that, knowing that the sire was a carrier, that the dam was either tested or was hereditary clear.

It may just be regular exhaustion or heat stroke. My twins are clear for EIC but will not self-regulate, even without the chasing of a ball. I have to be very careful with them in the summer in Spain to ensure they don't overheat. I've had it happen once each with the two of them, and it's horrible.

 

[SteffiS]

I can’t find any information about EIC tests for either Toffee’s mum or her parents. I’ve looked at all the places I can think of, if anyone knows anywhere else to look I would quite happily pm the Kennel club name of Toffee's mum.

 

[SwampDonkey]

Did you look on the KC site? If you enter KC names it will bring up health tests for both. Plus you can look up the grandparents too. It's part of the mate select section

 

[SteffiS]

I looked on the KC site, it shows other tests for his Mum and her parents, but no mention of the EIC test so I can only assume it wasn’t done.

 

[Natalie]

Is toffee completely fine now @SteffiS ? Must have been such a scare for you.

 

[Granca]

I looked on the KC site, it shows other tests for his Mum and her parents, but no mention of the EIC test so I can only assume it wasn’t done.

Are you still in touch with the breeder? If so, it may be worth asking if any other puppies from the same parents have had a similar problem.
Wispa hasn’t been tested, but someone who was on ‘the other place’ did some investigating for me and Wispa’s father was a carrier. I mentioned it to the owner of one of Wispa’s litter mates and she later passed it on to the breeder. The breeder had taken back another of the litter (for unrelated reasons) and he was subsequently found to have EIC. I can’t remember the exact details now, but it would be worth Thinking about. Of course, it may not be that at all, but at least you could rule it out.

 

[SteffiS]

Is toffee completely fine now @SteffiS ? Must have been such a scare for you.

Yes he seems fine, a bit put out on his walk this afternoon as I wouldn’t let him have his ball, but as far as I can see no ill effects.

Are you still in touch with the breeder? If so, it may be worth asking if any other puppies from the same parents have had a similar problem.

No, but I think I could easily get in touch and discuss this with her.

 

[Lisa]

So scary! Glad he’s better at any rate. Hope you can get to the bottom of it!

 

[kateincornwall]

@SteffiS It might be a good idea to have a chat with the breeder, just in case any other pups have suffered a similar episode . I remember when Sam was diagnosed with lymphoma , I immediately got in touch with the breeder who was happy to discuss although distraught at the diagnosis , she was also able to assure me that none of the other pups from his litter or the previous litter , had been diagnosed with it .
I`m glad that Toffee seems to be alright now , big relief I`m sure , fingers crossed it was a one off due to the humidity xx

 

[SteffiS]

Had a discussion with Toffee's breeder about this, she confirmed what I thought - that the EIC results for his sire have been added recently.
She hasn’t had any of her dogs tested for this, and is not aware of any dogs from her litters that have had this condition.

I’m hopefully getting an appointment with the vet this week, and in the meantime I am being careful with Toffee's walks and not allowing any play with other dogs. I’ve done quite a lot of reading about EIC and I don’t think his symptoms were really consistent with the way it is described but I may still go ahead with the test after I’ve had a discussion with the vet.