So did Rory. Labs mouth a lot especially Rory so I taught him the more rewarding game of taking things steady and rewards for taking his medication. He grew out of mouthing. Iver I started straight away and he's never been a mouthy boy.
Trixie
- Thread starter Shamas mom
- Start date
- Location
- Canada
I've been rewarding kisses, ignoring gentle mouthing and removing myself when she bites. she was an absolute crocodile as a smaller puppy. I was constantly in band-aids. If she grabs a leash/hand/pocket, I stop dead and refuse to engage, since I know she mouths for play. But I'll gladly play with a rope toy, as long as she stays away from my hand. She's terrible for trying to pull me around by my leg pockets in my cargos, or the hammer-strap on my carpenter jeans.
The muzzle for ear drops seems to be a thing. She stops trying to play and just stands there waiting to see what's next.. So this morning was quick and easy, followed by ear rubs and treats
I put peanut butter in the end. She's going to need a bigger size to accommodate her longer snout...I'd not want this one on her for more than a few seconds. It'd rub. Shamas muzzle is a baskerville size 5. She'd need either a 6, or a longer one meant for shephards...but many of those are hideous aluminum things, that'd make her look vicious. I've also considered cutting off the end bar to give her space for her nose, since it's not to stop biting, but rather to prevent mouthing during medical needs
- Location
- Canada
People socialization is going very well. She's starting to figure out that I don't want to randomly stick her nose in people's bums.....now she stares intently at them, wagging her tail until they acknowledge her and come pet. We are doing a lot of our walks in stores, since it's cold and Shamas hips don't like the cold. Next step will be to not go begging attention in the first place. She's turning into a social butterfly, which is good for a pet, not so much for a service dog. But that's OK--she's a pet with service potential. If she turns out to be very social, she'll stay a pet. She wasn't bred for it, nor did we pick her for it. It was only an idea we had.
People ask about Shamas, but he's quite content to stand behind Dad and grin at them. Dad's standard response to "Can I Pet that one" is "It's to him"
Dog socialization however is another story. She's still fixating and jumping at dogs. I've asked the trainer to work specifically on that bit with me.
People ask about Shamas, but he's quite content to stand behind Dad and grin at them. Dad's standard response to "Can I Pet that one" is "It's to him"
Dog socialization however is another story. She's still fixating and jumping at dogs. I've asked the trainer to work specifically on that bit with me.
- Location
- Canada
Dad's dogs came up today. We did a walk around the block with Trixie and them, and she was trying to jump on them the whole first block...but she settled in. I switched her to the harness once she calmed down. Left Shamas at home, because it's cold and his hips don't handle the cold well.
Dad brought his dogs in the house to visit Shamas, and I let the four of them out into the business section of the yard. I am hesitant to let them in the whole yard yet, as it lets Trixie build up too much speed and Toby and Shamas are too old to handle her jumping on them at speed.
Toby seems to like her, and she takes his cues to back off, dropping into a bow, and bouncing out of range when he stiffens...so he's willing to play a little. We just have to watch closely, as even a little knock makes him limp. She and Chloe shared many kisses, which made her very happy.
I called the vet to find out if she was contagious with her ears, and he said it was fine to have her around the other dogs. He's also suggested switching to Duck and potato food...so I found some Duck and Potato by Natural Balance in puppy formula. I'll put Shamas on the adult formula too--Vet said colitis can be triggered by allergies, and we should try Duck.
Since she got her ear infection 2 weeks after going on Royal Canin German Shephard Puppy, food allergy is a consideration as a possible cause of inflammation. Apparently, it's a combination of bacterial/yeast infection. So she's on antibiotics and ear drops. Other possibilities include her digging habit causing foreign bodies in her ears, and her ears getting wet(though the only way I see that being an issue is walking in that snowstorm when the big ole flakes were in her ears)
Trupanion is going to refund me 158dollars from the ear infection treatment to this point. I've met my 500dollar premium.
Oh and the little baby is now 62lbs!
Dad brought his dogs in the house to visit Shamas, and I let the four of them out into the business section of the yard. I am hesitant to let them in the whole yard yet, as it lets Trixie build up too much speed and Toby and Shamas are too old to handle her jumping on them at speed.
Toby seems to like her, and she takes his cues to back off, dropping into a bow, and bouncing out of range when he stiffens...so he's willing to play a little. We just have to watch closely, as even a little knock makes him limp. She and Chloe shared many kisses, which made her very happy.
I called the vet to find out if she was contagious with her ears, and he said it was fine to have her around the other dogs. He's also suggested switching to Duck and potato food...so I found some Duck and Potato by Natural Balance in puppy formula. I'll put Shamas on the adult formula too--Vet said colitis can be triggered by allergies, and we should try Duck.
Since she got her ear infection 2 weeks after going on Royal Canin German Shephard Puppy, food allergy is a consideration as a possible cause of inflammation. Apparently, it's a combination of bacterial/yeast infection. So she's on antibiotics and ear drops. Other possibilities include her digging habit causing foreign bodies in her ears, and her ears getting wet(though the only way I see that being an issue is walking in that snowstorm when the big ole flakes were in her ears)
Trupanion is going to refund me 158dollars from the ear infection treatment to this point. I've met my 500dollar premium.
Oh and the little baby is now 62lbs!
- Location
- Canada
Well, the muzzle thing's not working anymore. Now it's two people struggle to hold a 62lb dog as it struggles to get away. Twice a day
If she's not cleared up by her recheck, I'll put a claim in to Trupanion for allergy testing, and the ear medicine that goes in once for 30 days. I can't pay up front for either of those things but if Trupanion will cover, it's something we should consider. And from here on out, if she ever gets another infection, she goes under for the one time treatment right off the hop.
If she's not cleared up by her recheck, I'll put a claim in to Trupanion for allergy testing, and the ear medicine that goes in once for 30 days. I can't pay up front for either of those things but if Trupanion will cover, it's something we should consider. And from here on out, if she ever gets another infection, she goes under for the one time treatment right off the hop.
Just teach her without force she's perfectly capable of coping with treatment. Think how frightened you'd be if someone held you in a muzzle to apply treatment. It's very stressful for them because they don't feel safe or in control. Teaching them to cooperate and accept really helps them in so many situations I wouldn't want my dog to put my dog under the risk of an anaesthetic for a simple ear infection.
Jacqui-S
Moderator
- Location
- Fife, Scotland
This certainly is not great, and although we appreciate that she needs treatment, this is not a way we can sanction here.
For any training issue we recommend positive training approaches and holding her down is definitely not positive.
A co-operative training approach is one you seriously need to take on board.
Jacqui-S
Moderator
- Location
- Fife, Scotland
I don't know where I'd be with cooperative care. It's helped my get treat my dogs in ways which normally require sedatives and helped me treat them at home. They trust me and let me do anything needed for their general care
- Location
- Canada
THIS helps- thank you
Telling me to teach co-operative care is all good, but I don't know how- I come from a family history of "balanced trainers" and most of the trainers I've found to work with are balanced too. the Positive trainers have a LONG wait list, and charge $150/hour. I can't afford that. So I'm working positive in so far as I've picked up from books and online, and using the trainer for eyes-on-the-ground training. If it were up to my husband, she'd be Petsmart trained; It's very possible that once my 6 sessions are done, she's going to Petsmart to continue training.
I'm a little confused by the latest advice from the trainer, who stated that Trixie is destructive because she is bored, then told me to keep her on leash attached to a person at all times unless letting her out to play, or putting her in her pen. And take away all the toys. I'm beginning to think I'm going to only use her for leash handling--I can't get the hang of the right hand turn without either pulling up on the lead and confusing Trixie, or tripping over her. She's trying to teach me to right hand turn without pulling up. Trixie's stride is a couple of inches longer than mine, and I think she's just a tich too far forward.....Left hand turn is beautiful. Stop and sit would be if Trixie didn't scooch back to sit LOL.
Now she's eating the woodwork, and picking up random things to play with. AND developing seperation anxiety. She's started chewing the wall on the other side of the pen.
Any advice?? Seems to me she needs games to occupy her.
I'm racking my brains for how we taught a down stay in Pawsitively's classes. That would keep her brain occupied. So would the leave it game. I DID call Pawsitively for Trixie, but they had a 5m wait time, or something like that. So I called 7 different trainers, and ended up with this one. She uses the most re-enforcement out of all the trainers I called
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- Location
- Canada
It occurs to me that the problem with the ear drops was not so much the drop, but that she wanted to EAT the drops and I wouldn't let her.
Ear handling itself, is not a big deal. I just called her over for cleaning and she came running. we sang while I put the clothe in her ear, then she stole it and ran off pleased as punch.
So the handling issue we need to work on is bring a bottle near her while keeping her engaged with eating something different
I need to use the cleaner stuff on her in a couple of days....I think I'll try it with a pasted with Peanut butter, see what happens....
Trixie's main thought process is very 8m old child....."what's that? I'mma eat it"
Which is why we have a "bring it here" treat jar!
Ear handling itself, is not a big deal. I just called her over for cleaning and she came running. we sang while I put the clothe in her ear, then she stole it and ran off pleased as punch.
So the handling issue we need to work on is bring a bottle near her while keeping her engaged with eating something different
I need to use the cleaner stuff on her in a couple of days....I think I'll try it with a pasted with Peanut butter, see what happens....Trixie's main thought process is very 8m old child....."what's that? I'mma eat it"
Which is why we have a "bring it here" treat jar!
- Location
- Isle of Man
This is all I have used. There are loads of good on-line resources. We go to a "training class" once a week, but I just use it as a bit of fun/working with other dogs in proximity. The trainer in not 100% positive, but I try to be. He is happy for me to do what I do, so that suits us. We have very few options on such a small island.
Trixie is only a puppy still. A puppy in a big body. It's easy to forget that. She's doing fine. You're doing fine.
- Location
- Canada
we did our training at Chapters last night, practicing down-stay, and leash handling. She showed us a maneuver for turning and switching Trixie to the other side, in case we come across a dog coming up toward us. Of course, Trixie got excited and tried to eat the leash...so she also introduced a game to teach her not to do that. Also continuing work on that Default stop=sit. That one makes me laugh because she doesn't just sit--she backs into a sit, landing about 2-3 feet behind where we stopped! She's got the most dramatic stop-sit ever LOL.
she now has us swinging the leash near Trixie's face, and rewarding her NOT biting it lol.
She called me out on over-treating, as Trixie is manipulative, and had me trained to give treats she hasn't earned LOL. She's anticipating the behaviors that get rewarded, and is doing those instead of what I ask of her.
For example, when I ask for a down, and she goes into her crate and stares at me waiting for the reward for "go crate"
She says Trixie is doing Very well in her training and is making good progress. It's me that's struggling--I can't get the hang of the right hand turn, because I keep letting Trixie get too far ahead, so when I turn, I trip over her. She says I need to remember to do little moves to the right with the lead to tell her which way to go, so she knows to move WITH me instead of being underfoot. Not a tug or a pull...that will desensitize her, so she doesn't listen...just enough of a twitch to tell her which way to go. The goal is for her to respond to the lightest touch of the leash.
Outside of classes, I'm working on "be careful" which means there's ice on the ground, and we're going to take it slow--stick to my side, and don't pull ahead. She's getting it, and gets very excited, giving me the lolling tongue grin when she checks in for praise.
The harness is still a little aversive for her, but I continue to work with it a little because I'd like to be able to harness her for trail walks. I've had her wearing the harness but not leashed on it. I feel the harness is safer on the trails, as I use a longer leash, and thee's l;ess chance of a back clipped leash tangling on legs...
Oh, and we installed a K9 barrier in the car, because Trixie can't stay in the back seat. She keeps trying to stand on my shoulders to see if I've got Timbits when we go through drive throughs. It's not safe, and causes a distraction the driver DOESN't need
she now has us swinging the leash near Trixie's face, and rewarding her NOT biting it lol.
She called me out on over-treating, as Trixie is manipulative, and had me trained to give treats she hasn't earned LOL. She's anticipating the behaviors that get rewarded, and is doing those instead of what I ask of her.
For example, when I ask for a down, and she goes into her crate and stares at me waiting for the reward for "go crate"
She says Trixie is doing Very well in her training and is making good progress. It's me that's struggling--I can't get the hang of the right hand turn, because I keep letting Trixie get too far ahead, so when I turn, I trip over her. She says I need to remember to do little moves to the right with the lead to tell her which way to go, so she knows to move WITH me instead of being underfoot. Not a tug or a pull...that will desensitize her, so she doesn't listen...just enough of a twitch to tell her which way to go. The goal is for her to respond to the lightest touch of the leash.
Outside of classes, I'm working on "be careful" which means there's ice on the ground, and we're going to take it slow--stick to my side, and don't pull ahead. She's getting it, and gets very excited, giving me the lolling tongue grin when she checks in for praise.
The harness is still a little aversive for her, but I continue to work with it a little because I'd like to be able to harness her for trail walks. I've had her wearing the harness but not leashed on it. I feel the harness is safer on the trails, as I use a longer leash, and thee's l;ess chance of a back clipped leash tangling on legs...
Oh, and we installed a K9 barrier in the car, because Trixie can't stay in the back seat. She keeps trying to stand on my shoulders to see if I've got Timbits when we go through drive throughs. It's not safe, and causes a distraction the driver DOESN't need
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Beanwood
Administrator
Just switching from one side another - is likely not be giving Trixie enough space. Think about that, especially if Trixie is excited. If you are trying to train loose leash, and Trixie is throwing out other behaviours, such as grabbing the lead, you need to understand what is motivating the underlying behaviour - which I suspect is over -arousal ( think frustration) Deal with that first by looking at the context ( environment) you are training in. She is doing her best. Set her up for success by going to super quiet places, and rewarding her for being disengaged by what is happening around her, and reward her choice for being relaxed. Just let her sit on her favourite mat, and trickle small treats ( from above..) just for doing nothing. At her age, her brain is developing making it harder for her to stay calm in exciting environments. Your trainer should know this.
Eating the leash? That is your fault not Trixies. Waving it in front of her? How exactly do you stop her biting the leash? Movement of the item Trixie could be redirecting on, and rewarding her for not biting? is simply ridiculous advice, and setting her up for failure.
Any trainer that calls a dog "manipulative" is absurd. Dogs learn by classical conditioning. FACT. They do what works for them. Simples. Is us humans that are manipulative. Dogs are not.
Think about what you are rewarding her for. Going in the crate? Or staying in the crate? If Trixie gets rewarded for the cue "go crate" then she expects a reward by going to the crate and lying down.
Train for what Trixie NEEDS right now. Not what you WANT her to be. Work on building trust and communication and understanding HER not other way round.
Ditch the trainers who are giving shite advice and invest in a good book instead, so at least you have those foundations in place.
Don't shoot the dog - by karen Pryor is a good starting point.
Steve Manns book - Easy Peasy Doggy Squeezy is another good one.
- Location
- Isle of Man
love this
- Location
- Canada
Alright, point by point
Switching sides is a handling tool to put Us between her and the trigger, so we can keep moving away, instead of melting down. It's preventative, not management. For if a dog is coming from a side-street, and she wants to fixate. The movement is to help he to re-orient to us.
Leash grabbing is over-arousal/frustration. She truns on the nearest moving object, which is the hanging leash in my hand, and I've been caught in the crossfire a few times as she tried to bite it. By rewarding her for seeing the leash moving near her face and not biting it, the goal is to help her re-orient to me. While the leash is moving, I'm also looking for any eye contact I can reward but if she bites it, it goes "dead" If she bites it when we walk, all motion stops. The leash is the thing that connects her to me, and I don't go the way she pulls, so she turns it on the leash. Then my hands.
Calm in environments is already something we are working on. we are doing plenty of just standing around, and rewarding her carefully for just being there. However, we need to be careful with the use of treats, as even kibble can increase her state from calm to excited and undo what we're trying to accomplish
They do what works for them.-That's what SHE said. She has found that certain behaviors get treats by default, so she does them. Like Shamas with his default sit. It's not just with me though. She has also learned that Shamas always wants what she's got, therefore if she wants what he's got, she will show him a thing, then wait till he goes for it, and take the thing he left to get her thing---manipulative. She knows the rules, and makes them work for her.
And finally....Trixie is an amazing dog, and is doing REALLY well. She enjoys training, and we don't ask any more than she can give. If she struggles, we go back a step. Break it down, try again. I'm not trying to Trick train, or obedience train her---I'm working to train her to be able to hear and understand the leash when out and about. to see things, and not freak out one way or another. To build confidence. To be able to leave the house eventually without her eating it while I'm gone. (yes I know that's my fault too, you don't have to tell me) I don't want to have to pen her when I leave forever. I want to get her trained to the point where walking her is not a danger(trips, slips, falls, shoulders pulled, hands and arms accidentally nipped as she tries to play tug on the leash because some #%$%^ on the third floor balcony barked at her and she turns it on my leash). I want to not sport bruises every single day. I want to be able to hand the lead to someone else, not have them all look at me and say "I'll take the good dog"
We haven't even BEGUN working in places with dogs, because we want the basic socialization done so that when we go to a Pet store parking lot, or inside, she's able to be calm. We work in book stores. Next time, probably a Canadian Tire. Places she's already used to going regularly. She's not out of her element. We work with this trainer because when we worked with the PetSmart trainer for puppy class, she was over threshold and unable to focus.
If it were just me, I'd use the book---but trainers are for people more than dogs and the other PEOPLE in my house need to learn how to walk a dog. You can't just take hold of the leash and expect the animal to behave. They don't come pre-trained. and you can't just slap on a no-pull harness or Halti and solve the problem of non-communication. If the people don't know how to handle a leash, then the trainer is needed to teach them.
You're right, some of the advice given is "shite" and that advice generally lasts about a day before we scrap it as pointless. The "no dogs on the furniture" rule lasted until she left the house. Peace in our house is best maintained with the dogs at different levels. One on the floor, one on the couch, peacefully sleeping. Both on the floor means Trixie is bothering Shamas for his bed because hers isn't just the way she wants it. There are toys they can have, and toys they can only have when separate. Because Shamas doesn't share certain things and I don't want her learning to snarl over resources. But I don't feel the need to control the resources myself. we live as a unit, not a pack with a heirarchy. I feed seperately, with hers in my room and the door shut so Shamas doesn't raid her bowl-and she knows I feed Shamas first. I don't let her take his either.
I know certain types of trainers would tell me to take control of resources, because of shamas guarding issues....but as long as his boundaries aren't pushed, his issues aren't bad. I don't feel they're an issue. Trixie knows the deal. His food is off limits. If you want his toy or chew stick, you better offer up a better one. And if he takes both, tell mom. She'll magically produce a third. Balls are strictly off limits. I don't even keep them in the house. Balls are the one thing he gets Mean over.
Clearly you’re frustrated @Shamas mom , and finding it tough. You’ve been here long enough to have heard many similar challenges from lots of members, particularly with adolescent dogs and multi-dog households. Hopefully this helps to reinforce that many of the problems you’re having are not unique to you, and are all part of that challenging process of helping our dogs to live comfortably in our human world.
We choose to have them, and it’s our responsibility to make it work.
@Beanwood has given some very practical pointers above which I’d really encourage you to fully engage with, along with previous discussions on this forum around teaching adolescent dogs, arousal games, high value/low value treating, and management of a multi-handler situation. You say that
To reiterate Kate’s point above, because it’s really important:
We choose to have them, and it’s our responsibility to make it work.
@Beanwood has given some very practical pointers above which I’d really encourage you to fully engage with, along with previous discussions on this forum around teaching adolescent dogs, arousal games, high value/low value treating, and management of a multi-handler situation. You say that
and
. A bad trainer is worse than no trainer. It sounds like you are the primary caregiver, so ultimately the buck stops with you - the resources Kate suggested are a great, family-friendly starting point and should help everyone understand the basics of positive, cruelty-free training methods. If they can’t engage at that level, they probably don’t have capacity to help with training.
To reiterate Kate’s point above, because it’s really important:
Dogs are not manipulative in this way. You’re assigning human motivations and this is not helpful to anyone. If she is not behaving as you expect her to, this is on you to make it clear what you need her to do and make this achievable in small, incremental steps. This is a very common theme on this forum.
This is a fantastic insight. Keep harnessing this, and keep helping her to enjoy the training and build your relationship. Everything else will follow, but it starts with your relationship.
- Location
- Canada
I do get frusrated , yes.
Mostly because it's hard to train Trixie outside of sessions because Shamas butts in and tries to monopolize. At the training sessions, he's left home, and it's focused on her, me, and AB, who is being taught to lead without pulling on the leash. How to get her attention, and how to be confident when handling her. She's 62lbs at 8months, and we don't want her getting to full size with a handler who is not confident on the other end of the leash. She can't rely on tools for the life of the dog--we want her to be able to walk on a standard collar or harness. We work inside, and in the back yard too...but Shamas is bad for getting in the way, nosing in for treats. It's very frustrating.
I'm also frustrated because I come her to share good news, progress, and update how well she's learning....and am met with criticism, and blamed for her poor behavior(or that's how it felt)....I'm doing my best! I'm working with her daily, I'm reading, asking questions, playing games, and hiring trainers(albeit apparently crummy ones)I'm $700dollars into training this puppy. I'm trying!'
I'm not looking to make excuses, I'm looking to do better. I know that if she's still mouthy at 8months, I've messed up. Where? I'll tell you where--no matter HOW many times I tell people NOT to play with their hands around her mouth, they still do. And so she still thinks teeth are appropriate tools for play. And I'm the one getting nipped. But I can only be held accountable for me in the end--and a dog's training is as good as the family unit's follow through--and mine won't follow through on a few key things. They think I'm being unreasonable.
So the puppy is still biting leashes. And chewing the walls. And I don't see it stopping until they fall in line. And I'm about ready to throw in the towel because all I'm doing is throwing away money.
And on the other hand.......
She's only 8 months, and frequently receives compliments on how well behaved she is! I know adult dogs who are not as well behaved as she is. We frequent Chapters, Canadian Tire, and any place that lets dogs in, and she loves it. Her only issue in public is over arousal when dogs approach, and it's simply a desire to meet. In summer, we'll go to the field where dogs walk, and sit for coffee. Like we did when she was little. Watch the world go by. I take turns taking the dogs out, so that Shamas doesn't teach her to misbehave. That's howI did it with Angel too. I only started walking them together once Angel was leash trained, about 8-9months. When it was safe to take them both on the same hand, I'd walk them together. Angel calmed down after her first heat. I don't expect this one to calm until after hers
Mostly because it's hard to train Trixie outside of sessions because Shamas butts in and tries to monopolize. At the training sessions, he's left home, and it's focused on her, me, and AB, who is being taught to lead without pulling on the leash. How to get her attention, and how to be confident when handling her. She's 62lbs at 8months, and we don't want her getting to full size with a handler who is not confident on the other end of the leash. She can't rely on tools for the life of the dog--we want her to be able to walk on a standard collar or harness. We work inside, and in the back yard too...but Shamas is bad for getting in the way, nosing in for treats. It's very frustrating.
I'm also frustrated because I come her to share good news, progress, and update how well she's learning....and am met with criticism, and blamed for her poor behavior(or that's how it felt)....I'm doing my best! I'm working with her daily, I'm reading, asking questions, playing games, and hiring trainers(albeit apparently crummy ones)I'm $700dollars into training this puppy. I'm trying!'
I'm not looking to make excuses, I'm looking to do better. I know that if she's still mouthy at 8months, I've messed up. Where? I'll tell you where--no matter HOW many times I tell people NOT to play with their hands around her mouth, they still do. And so she still thinks teeth are appropriate tools for play. And I'm the one getting nipped. But I can only be held accountable for me in the end--and a dog's training is as good as the family unit's follow through--and mine won't follow through on a few key things. They think I'm being unreasonable.
So the puppy is still biting leashes. And chewing the walls. And I don't see it stopping until they fall in line. And I'm about ready to throw in the towel because all I'm doing is throwing away money.
And on the other hand.......
She's only 8 months, and frequently receives compliments on how well behaved she is! I know adult dogs who are not as well behaved as she is. We frequent Chapters, Canadian Tire, and any place that lets dogs in, and she loves it. Her only issue in public is over arousal when dogs approach, and it's simply a desire to meet. In summer, we'll go to the field where dogs walk, and sit for coffee. Like we did when she was little. Watch the world go by. I take turns taking the dogs out, so that Shamas doesn't teach her to misbehave. That's howI did it with Angel too. I only started walking them together once Angel was leash trained, about 8-9months. When it was safe to take them both on the same hand, I'd walk them together. Angel calmed down after her first heat. I don't expect this one to calm until after hers
Lisa
Moderator
- Location
- Alberta, Canada
Try not to be discouraged. It is hard to train two dogs! I have only ever had one at a time so can’t give you any pointers, but plenty of people here have. So it can be done. Might be worth looking up some threads on the forum where this has been discussed. Kikopup might have some YouTube videos on that, I’m not sure. If she does I’m sure they would be helpful.
It’s also very hard to train when the rest of the family aren’t completely onboard with what you are teaching her. I think most of us have butted up against that at one time or another. All you can do is keep on doing what you are doing and reminding the others of the “why” you are doing it that way. Ultimately it’s for their safety, and Trixie’s well-being, too. The more she can feel confident, comfortable, and safe, the better she will be around the family. Eventually! She’s still a puppy and will of course have a ways to go yet.
Adolescent dogs are hard, that’s for sure. You are putting a lot of time an effort into Trixie, and that’s a good thing. Sometimes we as moderators are concerned about the advice you are getting as it seems to us to be against the “positive reinforcement only” ethos of the forum. As moderators we need to make sure we don’t condone practices that seem to us to be contradicting that ethos. So we need to explain why that advice is not “positive only”, for your sake and Trixie’s sake, but also for other forum members who might be reading. I can probably understand a little better than our UK members how hard it is to find the “positive” trainers here in Canada. I think I’m North America we are a bit behind the UK and Europe in understanding that ethos. So us dog owners here have limited choices, especially if you are outside of a major city.
One of the best pieces of advice I got here from the others on the forum was to train the behaviour you want, instead of trying to train the dog NOT to do something. It’s a subtle mind-shift but an important one. It really helped me in those frustration points with Simba. Trying to train him NOT to jump up on people when they came to the door wasn’t working. Turning your back, saying “no”, ignoring him, etc etc didn’t work. Teaching him that we want him to sit when people come through the door was a much better idea. It doesn’t always work, but that’s ok!
I also found clicker training to be really, really helpful for a dog who had learned to ignore people. It was a way to communicate with him. Have you done any clicker training? Kikopup also has great videos on how to use the clicker.
It’s also very hard to train when the rest of the family aren’t completely onboard with what you are teaching her. I think most of us have butted up against that at one time or another. All you can do is keep on doing what you are doing and reminding the others of the “why” you are doing it that way. Ultimately it’s for their safety, and Trixie’s well-being, too. The more she can feel confident, comfortable, and safe, the better she will be around the family. Eventually! She’s still a puppy and will of course have a ways to go yet.
Adolescent dogs are hard, that’s for sure. You are putting a lot of time an effort into Trixie, and that’s a good thing. Sometimes we as moderators are concerned about the advice you are getting as it seems to us to be against the “positive reinforcement only” ethos of the forum. As moderators we need to make sure we don’t condone practices that seem to us to be contradicting that ethos. So we need to explain why that advice is not “positive only”, for your sake and Trixie’s sake, but also for other forum members who might be reading. I can probably understand a little better than our UK members how hard it is to find the “positive” trainers here in Canada. I think I’m North America we are a bit behind the UK and Europe in understanding that ethos. So us dog owners here have limited choices, especially if you are outside of a major city.
One of the best pieces of advice I got here from the others on the forum was to train the behaviour you want, instead of trying to train the dog NOT to do something. It’s a subtle mind-shift but an important one. It really helped me in those frustration points with Simba. Trying to train him NOT to jump up on people when they came to the door wasn’t working. Turning your back, saying “no”, ignoring him, etc etc didn’t work. Teaching him that we want him to sit when people come through the door was a much better idea. It doesn’t always work, but that’s ok!
I also found clicker training to be really, really helpful for a dog who had learned to ignore people. It was a way to communicate with him. Have you done any clicker training? Kikopup also has great videos on how to use the clicker.
- Location
- Canada
I've dabbled in clicker training, but my timing is atrocious. I end up re-enforcing the wrong behaviors. I'm much better with using the verbal "yes" when she does what I'm asking, and a crooning "good giiiirl" when she checks in on walks or holds a stay.
The croon is much better than treats, because treats pop her straight into an excited state of mind. I stopped working with treats and filled the bag with food instead....which is better for the state of mind, but useless for distraction/redirection. I'm struggling on that point.
We ran across a dog today, and we sat...I told her "just watch" and was waiting to reward her looking back to me but she fixated---could have used something smelly right there to get her attention back.
I've found that if we stop and sit, she can watch the dog pass by...but if we are moving, she loses her cool and tries to get to it. Possibly because I started doing the sit with the squirrels, when she started trying to chase them. The trainer wants me to keep her moving, but I find that movement in the face of a trigger increases the chance of a reaction. So she suggested uturn and move away(which theoretically should work, but she's intent on looking back, and gets underfoot--that was where the switch sides on turning maneuver she taught us last session came in, because if she's on the right she trips me up, so by switching her sides as we turn her we teach her to slide in behind and come back to place on the other side; thus not tripping us up when we can't afford to take a fall). I Uturn Shamas....but Trixie is just as triggered moving away as towards. I think......walking her BEHIND other dogs is probably the place to start if we want motion in the proximity of dogs.
I DID look for one of Karen Pryor's books at chapters...but couldn't find it. I was looking for "Click to calm" and "don't shoot the dog" or anything by Pippa mathhison. They didn't have either.
I also found that the turning away, walking forward as though she weren't jumping on me, etc didn't work. I simply hold my hands out, so her paws land in my hands, then tell her "off" She's started catching herself mid-jump now. Still workign on the default sit, to be able to get her to do that instead.....but I AM rewarding her with plenty of love if she chooses to lean on my legs, or stuff her head between my knees rather than jump. That's more and more becoming her greeting of choice. Incidentally, that's also Angel's greeting of choice....which makes me think it's a learned behavior, and one I taught unconsciously.
Funny thing is...as I re-read this, I seem to recall complaining that we needed to teach Angel NOT to leg-lean because she was pinning us against walls. Good thing Trixie's of a lighter build! She's 2 inches taller, but doesn't knock you over like Angel
The croon is much better than treats, because treats pop her straight into an excited state of mind. I stopped working with treats and filled the bag with food instead....which is better for the state of mind, but useless for distraction/redirection. I'm struggling on that point.
We ran across a dog today, and we sat...I told her "just watch" and was waiting to reward her looking back to me but she fixated---could have used something smelly right there to get her attention back.
I've found that if we stop and sit, she can watch the dog pass by...but if we are moving, she loses her cool and tries to get to it. Possibly because I started doing the sit with the squirrels, when she started trying to chase them. The trainer wants me to keep her moving, but I find that movement in the face of a trigger increases the chance of a reaction. So she suggested uturn and move away(which theoretically should work, but she's intent on looking back, and gets underfoot--that was where the switch sides on turning maneuver she taught us last session came in, because if she's on the right she trips me up, so by switching her sides as we turn her we teach her to slide in behind and come back to place on the other side; thus not tripping us up when we can't afford to take a fall). I Uturn Shamas....but Trixie is just as triggered moving away as towards. I think......walking her BEHIND other dogs is probably the place to start if we want motion in the proximity of dogs.
I DID look for one of Karen Pryor's books at chapters...but couldn't find it. I was looking for "Click to calm" and "don't shoot the dog" or anything by Pippa mathhison. They didn't have either.
I also found that the turning away, walking forward as though she weren't jumping on me, etc didn't work. I simply hold my hands out, so her paws land in my hands, then tell her "off" She's started catching herself mid-jump now. Still workign on the default sit, to be able to get her to do that instead.....but I AM rewarding her with plenty of love if she chooses to lean on my legs, or stuff her head between my knees rather than jump. That's more and more becoming her greeting of choice. Incidentally, that's also Angel's greeting of choice....which makes me think it's a learned behavior, and one I taught unconsciously.
Funny thing is...as I re-read this, I seem to recall complaining that we needed to teach Angel NOT to leg-lean because she was pinning us against walls. Good thing Trixie's of a lighter build! She's 2 inches taller, but doesn't knock you over like Angel
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