What does this mean?

[Rosie]

OK forum friends, help me unpick this one.... Slightly long story here, but I want to give the background in case anything is relevant.

We went trailing yesterday. For various good reasons, interactions between the dogs are not encouraged, so Pongo is not generally allowed to say hello etc - we stay in the car most of the time between trails, or go for on-lead walks round about. But of course there are lots of other dogs around because we're in public areas. Yesterday there was a little French bulldog type who wanted to say hello to Pongo, and Pongo was pulling like a train to go and say hello to him. So we went over, I had a chat to the owner while the dogs did their sniffy thing. Pongo didn't want to come away.

Someone in the trailing group then said to me "Did you notice that Pongo was unhappy about that interaction? He didn't want to be there, he didn't like that little dog sniffing him. He was standing stiff-legged and looking away." The implication was that I should have taken him away from the little dog because he was distressed (and, I suppose, might have got snappy). I've been reflecting on that, and trying to reconcile it with the fact that Pongo clearly wanted to meet the dog and, more importantly, didn't want to come away when I tried to move off.

So, what do you all think was happening? Pongo was doing what he quite often does now when meeting strange dogs: he has an initial sniff of both ends, then he stands quite stiffly while the other dog sniffs him all over. Pongo looks, to my eyes, as if he is saying "ok, yes, have a sniff...just be careful of me crown jools there mate...ok?". To me it looks as though he is "politely" tolerating the sniffing because he knows the other dog has to do this before it will play with him (but I might be putting too much human interpretation on that). Usually after a minute or so of sniffing both dogs run off to play nicely together.

This "stiff" behaviour is more common in Pongo now (aged 5) than it was when he was younger. As he has got older he has become much more choosy about who he wants to play with. There is one dog we meet frequently at home who always wants to play with Pongo, but who Pongo really doesn't like much (I have no idea why). When he comes dashing up to sniff and sniff, Pongo does exactly this "stand still and tolerate" behaviour, but then breaks off as soon as he can and goes trotting off. He has never acted snarly or angry, he just clearly doesn't want to play with that dog.

I also wonder whether the trailing set-up is bringing this out in him. He must realise that when he is on-lead (almost always at trailing) I am usually trying to prevent him from interacting with other dogs. So is he becoming stiff and nervy because he is worried about my reaction - that he is doing something "not allowed"?

One way or another.....was Pongo really unhappy about the encounter with the Frenchie, should I have taken him away (even if he resisted) for his own good, or was this just a normal bit of dog communication going on that was healthy and harmless, and that hoomans shouldn't interfere with?

What do you think?

 

[Leanne]

Hmm. Not sure!

Mas does the standing stock still bit whilst another dog sniffs him... then he usually launches into a play bow and off they go... I’ve always associated it with a ‘finding the boundaries’ and them showing each other that they are being respectful?

 

[kateincornwall]

I do think that some " hoomans " over think what is normal behaviour !

 

[Jacqui-S]

Have to say, I agree with Kate.
My initial thought was that you might be over-thinking this, and that you know your dog best.
I am rubbish at dog body language though

 

[Selina27]

I do think that some " hoomans " over think what is normal behaviour !

This exactly! And frankly, if he wasn't that happy with the Frenchie, it's his choice to make, it wasn't like you were forcing him to be there against his will! Without seeing it , it just sounds to me like 2 dogs sussing each other out.

 

[Natalie]

Monty often stands very still too when a dog is sniffing his bits, I just thought this was part of the doggy mutual sniffing agreement, plus they are putting themselves in a slightly vulnerable position at that moment so being still is for the best?

 

[snowbunny]

Hmm, you do know your dog best, but he is kinda being forced into an unnatural situation if he's on lead. I understand that he took you to the other dog, but that can be for a multitude of reasons - Shadow would do that to assess the threat, for example. Just because a dog approaches another, it doesn't mean that he's comfortable with the situation. Only Squidge is every allowed to meet other dogs on lead, and only dogs that we already know; you simply don't get natural interactions on lead, and it's asking for trouble.
The fact he didn't want to come away? Well, again, I don't know, I wasn't there, but Shadow doesn't like to turn his back on another dog once they have engaged. So he can look like he doesn't want to come away, when he's just very uncomfortable about the other dog.

Personally, I'd just not allow him to meet other dogs on lead. If he's uncomfortable, then even if he never aggresses, his stiff body language could cause another dog to have a go at him.

Pongo is a very different beast to Shadow, but I think it's useful to understand that approaching another dog and not wanting to come away from another dog doesn't necessarily mean that your dog wants to be with that other dog - there's often a lot of threat assessment going on.

 

[Anne123]

Personally, I'd just not allow him to meet other dogs on lead.

Me neither!
@Rosie: you said it was during mantrailing? I know that Finn is always very dedicated and doesn’t want to interact with other dogs. We do mantrailing one on one, not in a group. When other dogs are trespassing it is a certain distraction for Finn, certainly, but he is committed to do his job! And he won’t let others distract him!

 

[Jennifer]

I think it's useful to understand that approaching another dog and not wanting to come away from another dog doesn't necessarily mean that your dog wants to be with that other dog - there's often a lot of threat assessment going on.

I agree with Fiona. A lot of dogs don't like to turn away from another. It's a bit like the first to blink loses. There maybe no obvious aggression but in body language terms it can mean that the one that turns away first is giving in to the other (for want of a better description). If any aggressive behaviour does occur it's likely to be when one dog turns to leave the other may then attack.

 

[Rosie]

Thank you everyone!

like 2 dogs sussing each other out.

part of the doggy mutual sniffing agreement,

Yes, this is what I've always thought. It's useful to know that others do the same sort of thing.

understand that approaching another dog and not wanting to come away from another dog doesn't necessarily mean that your dog wants to be with that other dog - there's often a lot of threat assessment going on

just not allow him to meet other dogs on lead.

And thanks @snowbunny because that's a really good point...and also that if he is looking "stiff" then that might be a trigger to another dog. We hardly ever use a lead so it's an unnatural thing for him (although his stiff stance is also when he and the other dog are off-lead).

it was during mantrailing?

It was in a mantrailing session, but not while Pongo was working - I was taking him for a bit of a walk between trails, he was out of harness..

All good food for thought for me!

Rxx

 

[Atemas]

For what it’s worth here is my take on it. I reckon the person who said Pongo wasn’t liking the situation could be right. This is based on my experience with other dogs and Sky. Sky is really not interested in other dogs (she is fine now with Red and they have a close and interesting relationship) but she will go all stiff legged if another dog comes up to her when she is on lead. She will look away and her whole body language is ‘I am not interested, go away and keep away’. Off lead she will do a semi circle run to get past a person and a dog - she must be giving off the keep away from me vibes as they usually do. I have never been sure if she is scared of other dogs or just plain not interested. Anyway for her, stiff legged ness is a protective sign.

As regarding greeting other dogs when all on lead, my instincts are not to. Red is reactive to some dogs and I always steer her away. She gets plenty of chance to play with other dogs when off lead so I hear myself saying to her ‘that dog’s having a walk’ as I move her along.

However, you know your dog!

 

[edzbird]

I'm in the minority, I let my dogs greet others on lead, but judge the meeting and act accordingly. I find it an easier, more controlled greet. The people we greet are good to judge the situation too. It works for Coco anyway. Not done any greeting with Meg on lead outside of school, I don't feel she's ready. She may never be.

 

[Emily]

I'm in the minority, I let my dogs greet others on lead, but judge the meeting and act accordingly. I find it an easier, more controlled greet.

We're the same but I put that down to the fact that our lead rules mean that 90+% of meets are on lead.

 

[M.F.]

If Snowie goes stiff while interacting, I know he won’t come away cos as said above, he doesn’t want to turn his back on the other dog. So what I do in a situation where I think he feels vulnerable is to put myself between him and the other dog and then I say hallo sweetly to the other dog to distract it and get it to drop it’s defense. When it relaxes, Snowie relaxes, and they both move on. Not always as easy as that, but generally the most pleasant way to get them all to move on.

 

[Selina27]

I let my dogs greet others on lead, but judge the meeting and act accordingly.

I'm the same, sometimes there isn't any choice. If I always had a choice then both dogs would be off lead, but very often that isn't the case. I know all dogs are different, but I think in the main the more relaxed about it all we are the more they are, but I fully accept that past experience can make this much easier said than done with individual dogs, and that not all settings are appropriate.

The places that made all this worse for me was training classes! Other owners while waiting outside or even in the class would bring there dogs over when I wanted Cass to sit quietly (an uphill task in itself 18 months ago) and think it quite alright for their dogs to twist their leads around Cassie's, I used to get quite het up about it. Impossible to get her to focus on me when there was another dog practically between my legs! So I was very pleased when at our last gundog class she got out of the car at the same time as the dog next door, almost touching each other, and she just turned and gave me eye contact. (Just a little aside!).

 

[Boogie]

We never greet other dogs on lead. Tatze is rarely on lead apart from a few moments from car to free run place. When Spencer is on lead he’s working and must ignore all other dogs anyway.

At Mantrailing the other dogs are all reactive dogs (it’s why they do Mantrailing as it’s 1-1 work) so the dogs don’t even get to see each other and are in their cars when it’s not their turn.

Nice and clear cut for us.
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