Starting with a behaviorist.

Shamas mom

Shamas mom

Location
Canada
It took me ages to find this lady again, but I finally found the trainer that I had wanted to hire on back in the spring. I had been thinking back then that I wanted to train Shamas professionally, get help with the dog-dog thing...but their lady was in BC, training dogs for an upcoming movie. SO I kept on on my own, not being in a rush and having plenty to work on.

So over Christmas, I told everyone that I wanted money to put towards dog training...and we start Jan 4th. First session is 1 hour, and $100. I expect to be told that Shamas is a nervous dog, with little confidence in his walkers. They will show me and my youngest how to properly handle the lead, how to offer treats for the best impact, and how to teach him impulse control.

I'm not sure how many sessions it'll take before we get to the dog issues he has--barking and lunging at any leashed dog that approaches us. I'm sort of expecting them to want to teach him some of the things we have worked on already, and some that i couldn't get him to learn myself. LAT is not in my toolbox...he couldnt figure it out...or I didn't teach it right. LAM is very uncertain. He's not quite sure what I'm asking?Sure, he'll follow the treat to my eyes...but without a treat in front of my face, he's not looking at me. I want him to learn Go To Place, as a potential alternative to window and door barking...right now I refuse to open the door until he sits, and for the window, I count 1...2...3...That's enough, get down. I'm usually at 2 before he actually starts his bellowing, because he needs to move the curtain to see out.

Follow-up sessions are $50 each for 1/2 hour. They have decoy dogs too, so when it's time to introduce him to others, we can work on-site with introductory behavior. Knowing my luck, he'll be fine on introductions, because the dogs are calm and location secluded. Not as if they're walking leashed dogs down the road to us........but maybe they can help us with manners and socialising?
 
Cupcase

Cupcase

I have a reactive dog. I stopped LAT and never tried LAM as it's not fair on Cupar. He is scared from strange dogs, so his form of defence is offence.
I carry squeezey cheese when I know I will meet other dogs and cross the road well in advance, feeding Cupar the cheese and telling him he's fine a lot.
I've found a trainer I would like to use but he's too far away.
I wish you the best and be interested in how it goes.
 
Joy

Joy

Location
East Sussex
I hope it goes well. I think it could be very useful having calm decoy dogs available. Once Shamas is comfortable with the other dogs in a secluded location, I would expect the trainer to move on to work in gradually busier, 'real-life' environments.
 
Shamas mom

Shamas mom

Location
Canada
Cupcase said:
I have a reactive dog. I stopped LAT and never tried LAM as it's not fair on Cupar. He is scared from strange dogs, so his form of defence is offence.
I carry squeezey cheese when I know I will meet other dogs and cross the road well in advance, feeding Cupar the cheese and telling him he's fine a lot.
I've found a trainer I would like to use but he's too far away.
I wish you the best and be interested in how it goes.
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Shamas goes on offence too- Makes himself big and scary. Oddly, it's only with leashed dogs. Were OK with dog park, and yesterday we passed a dog who was offleash. He started to fly off the handle, but then as the dog walked away from her owner, to come and greet him..and the owner called her back..he realised that she was free, and began to calm down. We were able to get along on our way without him putting up as much fuss as usual. I'm definitely going to mention this to the trainer on Friday....He also reacted very positively to the Mastiff that charged over off-leash over the summer.
 
Emily_Babbelhund

Emily_Babbelhund

Mama Red HOT Pepper
Location
Regensburg, Germany
Shamas mom said:
Makes himself big and scary. Oddly, it's only with leashed dogs.
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That's not odd at all - in fact in my albeit limited experience, that's pretty much textbook. My Brogan was horribly leash reactive as a young dog but was always excellent off leash. Carbon has what I'd call a mild on lead reactivity problem, but again is stellar off leash with other off leash dogs.

@snowbunny can probably give you the technical 'why' of it all, but for both Brogan and now Carbon, my gut says that it has zero to do with aggression and all to do with fear. As you say, making themselves big and scary in the face of a dog that scares them. Leashes/leads mess up the whole body language and how they approach each other and turns the whole 'are you OK? cause I'm OK' dog dance into a mess...and boom! Reactive dog.

Apologies for sounding like a broken record, but to give you hope... leash reactivity CAN be managed in some dogs. Brogan was absolutely horrible and ended up going through service dog school and passing with flying colors. As an adult, he could walk past any dog cool as a cucumber. I don't know if that's possible for all reactive dogs, but at least it's possible for some.
 
Cupcase

Cupcase

I really hope it goes well for Shamas and yourself, as it changes people's perceptions of the most lovable dog, into, in their eyes, an aggressive dog.
 
Shamas mom

Shamas mom

Location
Canada
Cupcase said:
I really hope it goes well for Shamas and yourself, as it changes people's perceptions of the most lovable dog, into, in their eyes, an aggressive dog.
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Thanks for that comment, it gves me something to think on

I don't believe Shamas is a truly aggressive dog. I believe he's insecure. Aggressive default. But a truly aggressive dog would nearly always be aggressive in a given circumstance. I can walk Shamas by a dog on leash about 40% of the time...dependng on distance allowed and if I can keep him distraceted/behind a barrier. He doesn't bully park dogs, rather avoids them. And he's been fearful since we got him. If a trainer told us he was aggressive, I'd be looking for a new trainer.....

I suspect he jumped a fence to escape a bad situation with other dogs, or was dumped....he was found on the side of the highway. Fear of traffic and fear of dogs are his two main issues aside from having no training....and he was only 55lbs at 6 years. His healthy,slim weight is 70lbs. He's currently solid muscle.
 
Cupcase

Cupcase

Shamas mom said:
Thanks for that comment, it gves me something to think on

I don't believe Shamas is a truly aggressive dog. I believe he's insecure. Aggressive default. But a truly aggressive dog would nearly always be aggressive in a given circumstance. I can walk Shamas by a dog on leash about 40% of the time...dependng on distance allowed and if I can keep him distraceted/behind a barrier. He doesn't bully park dogs, rather avoids them. And he's been fearful since we got him. If a trainer told us he was aggressive, I'd be looking for a new trainer.....

I suspect he jumped a fence to escape a bad situation with other dogs, or was dumped....he was found on the side of the highway. Fear of traffic and fear of dogs are his two main issues aside from having no training....and he was only 55lbs at 6 years. His healthy,slim weight is 70lbs. He's currently solid muscle.
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I didn't mean Shamas was aggressive, sorry if my comment came across that way. I'm hopeless with the written word.
If we compared our two dogs, mine would be classed as aggressive, his reaction to seeing other dogs is to fight rather than flight. Both on and off lead. It is definitely fear based.
 
Shamas mom

Shamas mom

Location
Canada
It's Ok, I didn't think you were saying that Shamas is aggressive-- what I took is that sometimes owners go to behaviorists looking for help and are told that their family pet is aggressive...leaving them with a feeling of hopelessness...perhaps losing faith in their personal safety around their family friend? Aggressiveness is rated on a scale of 1-10, based on behaviors...from a trainer that I reacently was watching, Chet Womac...nearly half of dog owners would rate their family friend 5-7 on this scale. for reactivity based behaviors. 10 percent rate at the 8-10. He was shocked that such a large amount of people have family friends who rate so high.

On the scale offered...Shamas would be about 5-6. Based on his reactivity based behaviors. I would never wor
ry about him acting out at people, but I keep a close watch on him around dogs. I put it down to poor or no socialisation, little to no training, and fear.
 
Shamas mom

Shamas mom

Location
Canada
I'm really excited! The first session went great--the trainer will be continuing on the work that we've already done, shaping and proofing Shamas's LAT, teaching him Go To Place, and LAM. Working with us to recognise his threshold limits. She runs a body language seminar, which we plan to attend. We'll focus on his dog reactivity, so that he can go in public without being stressed at the presence of other dogs. The dogs to be used are her own, that she uses in her Unimutts stunt shows. She has been on morning shows, and recently trained the cat on Pet Semetary, the movie about to release.

She didn't do any more than what is to be our homework today--the idea is to make the first session easy and fun, so that Shamas looks forward to coming there.


Homework for the next two weeks is:
Watch, Target, down on a mat, Look at that game

10 minutes per day, 10 reps of each

Youtube: DonnaHill look at that game

Next visit: January 18, 7pm
 
Cupcase

Cupcase

I'm so so pleased for you and kind of envious, this trainer sounds wonderful.The body language course should be so beneficial.
 
Shamas mom

Shamas mom

Location
Canada
Jacqui-S said:
Great!
And everybody is on board?
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Hubby is definitely on-board. He can hear the similarities between what the trainer says, ans what I was already doing. Plus, Shamas liked her which to him means more than anything. He's not even that worried about the cost---and he worries abotu the cost of EVERYTHING

My son is gratified ot hear that some of his own techniques are approved, and that he is not going to have to change his walking style(he walks full-leash and lets Shamas wander-can't stand using a short leash)
Youngest, most obstinant...doesn't like to be told she's wrong in anything....I put her in charge of playing brain games. that way she can feel like she's training, but until she's willing to listen, she won't be handling him a whole lot.
My eldest really doesnt handle him much anyway. She's a full fledged teen and spends much of her time out of the house. when she's home, she's the source of all begging -she can't say no to his best-practiced repetoirs lol. she doesn't walk him at all- he cn pull more than she weighs and she'd need a Halti or something for her to handle his strength.
 
Shamas mom

Shamas mom

Location
Canada
Session 2 went well!

AB(youngest) was pretty tense about the other dog. I'm glad she's coming with us-she needs this as much as Shamas does. She was taken over to meet the new dog, then we started. AB worries about dogs, and Shamas-she's not the type of person who shakes things off, and was there when the German shephard pups menaced us in the park(which Shamas handled admirably) and when I took my spill on my rollerblades, letting go of Shamas' leash and giving him the opportunity to pick a fight with another lab. The owner caught Shamas and assured AB that it was just "leash aggression" but it really shook her. I broke my arm that day and haven't taken Shamas out on wheels again. She's always afraid of Shamas getting loose, or going off on another dog. Her fear transmits, and he goes into his defensive mode. I often dont take her to walk him now.....not until she can see that hes better than he was last summer. This training is as much for her as it is for Shamas

SO, the session:

The dog was brought out, with Shamas behind a "wall" (two standing signs) It took a few tries to get the right level of treat to hold his attention, with a dog in the room....sausage not enough...nope, not even cat kibble. It took chicken, of the type you buy for stir-fry and it comes pre-cooked and sliced in a box to keep in the freezer.

We had him sit behind the wall. Down on mat. good. then, we'd move him out just about a foot to another mat, and have him go Down on Mat again. reward for looking, and back to eye contact. Each time he didn't follow the chicken back to eye contact, started to tense, stared too long, etc...we brought him back behind his wall and the dog was removed. He was allowed to sniff her place at these breaks.

As we were leaving, the car slipped on ice at the end of the drive..instead of pulling out into the highway, we went sideways and ditched. Everyone was taken out of the car, and CAA called. Shamas was invited back into the training center, where he and AB played with some toys for 45 minutes while we waited for the tow to get us out of the ditch. It was all fine- the car hadn't even moved, so there was no speed involved in the spill--just a car in a hole lol. Very good of the trainer to let us back inside though...I'm glad she didn't have an appointment after us!
 
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